Posted on 03/04/2007 2:13:52 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
The 2008 presidential campaign is just weeks old, but already an article of faith within the Republican Party -- the belief that no politician who favors abortion rights and gay rights can win the GOP nomination -- is being challenged by the candidacy of former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani.
...."This is the first Republican presidential primary since Sept. 11," said Ed Gillespie, ... "Rudy Giuliani is a candidate who can clearly test the proposition that a Republican who is more moderate on social issues can capture the nomination. He's testing it now."
....Whit Ayres, a Georgia-based Republican pollster, said he has been struck by the number of conservatives he has encountered who disagree with Giuliani on abortion or gay rights but are still attracted to him as a possible Republican nominee. ....
"It truly is the question in Republican presidential politics at the moment," Ayres said. "There are a lot of people with a more traditional view who think that his leading in the polls is just a mirage and that he has no real chance. I don't believe that. I think there's more to this than simply name ID. "
...A veteran Republican strategist, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to candidly assess the situation, said he is among those who long believed that a Republican with Giuliani's profile would have no chance. He still believes the former mayor faces significant obstacles but said the odds of Giuliani winning the nomination are not as remote as they once seemed.
He gave three reasons: the absence of a strong, traditional conservative in the GOP field; continuing antipathy among many social and religious conservatives toward McCain; and the prospect of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) becoming the next president.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
***... "We will not defeat the Clinton machine by being negative," Mr. Gingrich said, referring to Democratic front-runner Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York. "We will defeat the Clinton machine by offering better solutions based on better values with a deeper reach into the American people's lives and psyche."
The former House speaker challenged all of the candidates to commit to a new way of conducting the last nine weeks of the presidential campaign: Forgo attack ads and meet once a week for 90-minute in-depth discussions, "no Mickey Mouse," with just a timekeeper, no moderator and no panel of questioners.
In the straw poll of 1,705 CPAC attendees who voted, Mr. Romney was the top choice of 21 percent, followed by Mr. Giuliani at 17 percent, Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas at 15 percent, then Mr. Gingrich at 14 percent and Sen. John McCain of Arizona at 12 percent.
But combined with second-choice ballots, Mr. Giuliani vaulted to the top -- followed by Mr. Romney and Mr. Gingrich. Mr. Brownback was fourth, Mr. McCain fifth, and Rep. Tom Tancredo sixth with 9 percent.
The combined choice is the most important yardstick because it measures depth of support, said J. William Lauderback, executive vice president of the American Conservative Union, the conference's chief sponsor.
"The Romney [second choice] number was markedly shallow at 9 percent," he said. ...***
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20070304-120048-6857r.htm
Yeah, and the Civil War was the result of one of those compromises.
An excellent example!
Get lost.
By admitting this, abortion becomes more of a grey issue than slavery, which is wrong under all circumstances.
Rape and incest are crimes that deserve severe punishment, but not death to the innocent child.
President Bush does not share this view. Most anti-abortion legislation proposed in recent years does not either.
Ivan
"...a promise which Rudy has made, and can be made to stick to ..."
No, he didn't quite promise that. Nor is there any way to enforce that.
Ever heard of fighting for what you believe in?
I believe the answer is yes.
However I don't think that's the crucial question which is "Will conservatives come out to work for him?" and the answer is no.
Conservatives have been the work horses of the party in every win since the 80s. Working phones, stuffing envelopes, walking neighborhoods. You can't buy passion and passion gets out the vote of the mushy middle. The MSM thought that the Deanianc volunteers were a big deal. They were, in comparison, a minor blip compared to the cadre of republican volunteers. Atwater understood the power of this resource as did Rove.
Conservatives couldn't bring themselves to work for Bush I after the "read my lips" betrayal. While Perot was undoubtedly a factor in the outcome of that election so was the fact that volunteers were in short supply.
Middle of the roaders have never been the worker backbone of the party. What pro-death republican can get passionate about "choice"? If they were passionate about it they'd be democrats? What pro-gay marriage republican can get passionate about gay marriage? If they were they'd be a democrat. You get the drift.
Some conservatives held their doubts and worked for W both elections. In my opinion, cleverly and wisely deployed in battleground states, they made the difference. Rove has said as much, one could say it was flattery, I this he knew it as fact.
Finally, so disgusted with being betrayed once again they stayed away from volunteering this last cycle. The results speak for themselves.
So yes, conservatives will hold their nose and vote because they are the hard core line against the far, far left, but they probably aren't the swing factor which is their time and effort to sway the middle and they won't give it up for a RINO.
Never have, never will.
Ivan
"By admitting this, abortion becomes more of a grey issue than slavery, which is wrong under all circumstances."
Nope. We sentence to hard labor (slavery) criminals.
And trying to take the minute few abortions that actually are medically necessary to save the life of the mother and use that to claim that there is a "grey" are in the murder of the innocent children is, well, at best not a persuasive argument.
Regards, Ivan
While he was the “Republican Mayor” of New York City he appointed more than 60 men and women to the Civil, Criminal, and Family Court benchs. In all of those judicial appointment only two were Republican.
All of his other judical appointments were either registered Liberals or registered Democrats. As the “Republican Mayor” he had appointment power over more than 70 full commissioners in more than 50 City agencies, yet at no time during his administration did REPUBLICANS account for more than 10% of those appointments.
He even appointed Chuck Schumers wife as the City’s Department of Transportation Commissioner.
________________________________________________________________
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9054.html
There is an expression, my memory fails me, about how leaders arise due to events happening at the time.
I think there is a big difference between slaves and criminals - a slave has done nothing to put himself in bondage. A criminal did so by committing a crime.
And trying to take the minute few abortions that actually are medically necessary to save the life of the mother and use that to claim that there is a "grey" are in the murder of the innocent children is, well, at best not a persuasive argument.
Abortion has more gradations as an issue than slavery is the point; I would agree that you personally may not see it that way - but the wider public, and indeed the majority of anti-abortion politicians do so.
Ivan
Exactly. They didn't see the president as a ruler.
During the 18th and 19th centuries, the gradations in the views on slavery existed as well. The difference between slavery and abortion? Slaves could be freed. Dead is dead forever.
Best reply I have seen. Makes the most sense and validates my tossing away my RNC membership card.
Yes.
The only gradation was trying to pick and choose where it existed, but that was in itself, a choice whether it existed or not.
Ivan
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