Posted on 03/02/2007 3:38:11 PM PST by Stoat
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Sen. Kline tells off-roaders to buzz off Posted by David Postman at 11:41 AM .(snip)
.... sometimes Kline has no interest in restraint. In responding to an e-mail from someone asking Kline why he was backing a bill that would crack down on loud off-road vehicles, the senator sent this e-mail: Dear Mr. Helgeson, (snip) |
(Excerpt) Read more at blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com ...
Ping.
Wonder what kind of self exploration this guy doesn't want interrupted from while he's in the woods? Methinks he has a severe case of cranial-rectal inversion.
We have a personal watercraft that we use on our private lake. Not everyone fits the stereotype.
What a resume! This guy's straight out of leftie central casting!
You got that right! One trip over the handlebars will change his mind right quick! ;-)
1st, this isn't Texas, so you don't have a clue what you're talking about. In Washington State, there are no trails that Motorcycles and Quads are allowed on that bicycles, equestrians, and pedestrians are not also allowed on, yet over 90% of trails that bicycles, equestrians and pedestrians are allowed on, and paid for by ORV gas tax dollars do not allow ORVs.
2nd, If you are having trouble keeping motorized vehicles off local trails, you need to ask yourself some things, like "Are they allowed here?" If so, try sharing the trails with them, like they do with you. If they aren't allowed on those trails, there is nothing in this bill that will help you get rid of them. That's what law enforcement is for. Frankly, you sound very selfish, and I have little sympathy for selfish people.
3.There's better than 90% odds that the trails you are trying to keep everyone but your self off of were built by these same motorcyclists, and maintained by them or a combination of them and trail crews paid for by the state using ORV gas tax money and off road sticker money paid for by these same people you want to take the trails away from.
How much do you pay in registration fees and gas taxes for your bicycle? How many weekends have you spent clearing windfall, and repairing damage done by logging, so others can enjoy their weekends? You don't really think there's enough forest workers to do all this, do you?
4) Your bicycle going down a trail would not meet the 45db standard. Should mountain bikes be included in these standards?
Pinging Claire Wolf. Is it time yet?
This is a Washington state noise abatement issue, where ORV noise has supposedly driven the legislature to extreme measures, even though there was not one ticket issued to an ORV for excessive noise last year in the entire state, and we have had officers at every major trailhead checking exhausts for years.
Most off road bikes out there already adhere to the new 96db standard, as the industry and ORV community recognized long ago that more sound means less ground. Every dirtbike I've owned since 2000 met the new standards, and very few don't meet the current standards unless they are running an exhaust designed solely for a closed course race track. If they are, they will not have a USFS spark arrestor in them, and will usually get a ticket as soon as they unload. I've heard the argument "what if they run?" Where are going to run to? The parking lot, where the officers wait for them.
Facts to consider before voting;
1) It has been established in the Fiscal Notes that “Zero infractions were filed under RCW 46.09.120(1)(e) in 2006”.
RCW 46.09.120(1)(e)” Without an adequate, and operating, muffling device which effectively limits vehicle noise to no more than eighty-six decibels on the "A" scale at fifty feet as measured by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) test procedure J 331a, except that a maximum noise level of one hundred and five decibels on the "A" scale at a distance of twenty inches from the exhaust outlet shall be an acceptable substitute in lieu of the Society of Automotive Engineers test procedure J 331a when measured”
2) The Tacoma Police Department is currently giving tickets for any violations of RCW 46.37.390.(3): “No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor vehicle in a manner which amplifies or increases the noise emitted by the vehicle above which was emitted by the muffler that was originally installed.”
Trooper William Ashcraft says the Washington State Patrol gets a lot of questions on this topic.
“It is NOT legal for kids with small cars, motorcycles or anyone to have a loud muffler,” he wrote in an e-mail reply.
“As far as TPD is concerned, traffic officers will issue a citation for a loud muffler when appropriate. Although traffic enforcement is not the primary concern of patrol officers, they will also ticket offenders when possible,” police spokesman Mark Fulghum said.
“A citation is subject to $101 fine”
Source: The News Tribune, 2-20-2007
3) No evidence of any current ORV noise problems were presented, nor statements from law enforcement, solicited or given, to support any ORV nuisances of any sort were presented at the February 2, 2007 Public Hearing.
4) The only testimony given to support any past noise problems related with ORVs were on two backyard tracks that have long been closed.
5) The testimony for the bill was given exclusively by current Washington State Government Employees and one ex Washington State government employee who is now a lobbyist for Futurewise.
6) Senator Fraser testified that ORV operators dismantle their mufflers to make them louder, yet offered no evidence to support that claim.
It is well known that the owners of some street bikes do, especially sport /racer types and big V twins, such as Harley, V stars, etc., just as Hot Rod cars are.
However, Street bikes and Hot Rods are not required to have USFS approved spark arrestors, as are ORVs, unless they are strictly enclosed track models.
ORVs are already regularly inspected by Education and Enforcement officers at trailheads and parking lots for spark arrestor silencers. Any ORV caught without a spark arrestor gets a $101.00 ticket.
USFS ORV spark arrestor/ silencers are constructed in such a way that the silencer cannot be separated from the spark arrestor, unlike the mufflers on street machines.
7) As evidenced by Law Enforcement’s statements in #2, this issue is already being dealt with in neighborhoods by Law Enforcement, not Vigilante citizens.
8) As evidenced in #2, the Tacoma Police Department does not discriminate against one group to penalize for noise nuisances, as does SB5544.
9) As CORVN testified, this is an anti ORV bill, contrary to Senator Fraser’s claims.
10) The Tacoma Police Department citation for a noise infraction is $101.00, regardless of the source of noise.
11) SB5544 would discriminately level citations solely at one source of noise, even though there were ZERO infractions for that source in 2006. The citations would be increasingly punitive, beginning with a $100.00 citation. Punitive fines would then be added to effect a doubling to $200.00, then $400.00, then $800.00.
12) Senator Fraser has not cited precedent or need for consecutive doubling of punitive fines for traffic infractions.
13) Senator Fraser has not cited precedent or need for Vigilante citizen participation in enforcing laws that are already on the books, and already being enforced by current law enforcement.
14) SB5544 would give a citizen the impetus to harass their neighbor with frivolous lawsuits, as it requires no proof whatsoever that an infraction has occurred. This is why we have police, so we are not constantly finding ourselves the victims of false accusations.
15) The “reduction in sound levels from 105 to 96db starting with 2008 models” section is not only acceptable, it is long over due.
16) The rest of SB5544 is nothing but a bold faced vendetta against the ORV community, characterized by public employees, some of which are principals of anti ORV groups, testifying with great prejudice against the ORV community.
Please do not pass any sections of the bill other than the lowering the decibel limit to 96db.
Please stop these prejudiced actions against law abiding ORV families.
Since I sent all the committee members that note, I also sent them HUD's DBA standards.
For a residential neighborhood, the day and night average level (DNL DBA)of 65 is the dividing line of acceptable/non acceptable.
There are no DNL averages in SB 5544, just a maximum of 55 at the property line or 45 10' from the residence.
It's an unacceptable standard imposed on one user group.
What's worse than reproducing lawyers?
Leftist reproducing lawyers!
I never cared much for NASCAR, SUVS, dirt bikes, ATVs, snowmobiles, or those watercraft missile thingies until I found out how much lefty metrosexual control-freaks hate them.
Since then, it's cold beer and hot motors all the way!
Let' put this moron on a dirt bike in Baja California with no water and tell him that he has a nice, easy fifty mile ride to get to the next water. Then videotape his response afterward.
Your definition reminds me of vehicle drivers in general. Ever observed cart drivers in stores. Same story. People in general are bad drivers no matter what the product motorized or otherwise. In addition, they appear to be only interested in their little footprint, instead of the area surrounding their little footprint, which impacts lots of people.
Sounds like a good compromise. Most of the time, I'm in the wilderness because I want the peace and quiet, and I would resent the noise and disruption of trail bikes and such.
On the other hand, I've seen the folks throwing their ATVs around the sand on Cape Hatteras, and that looks like a hell of a lot of fun. I would love to spend a long weekend with a MilSpec humvee with deflated tires and a tent in the back. And plenty of fine-mesh screening, because those sand fleas are a bitch.
Good observation
I'm delighted that you are finding it to be beneficial. Too bad that in this instance it receives notice as a result of the hysterical, breathtakingly unprofessional and embarrassingly unstatesemanlike rantings of a hard-Left politician, but as they say, when an important issue is at stake, any publicity is good publicity.
I have been doing almost nothing but fighting SB5544 for the last month.
Your efforts are sincerely appreciated, and I do hope that you will realize your goal, which I and many others here share and support..
All you have to be is "plainley audible" 10 ft from or inside any residence (not neccesarily yours), or louder than 45db (the sound of grass growing) 10 ft from the property line.
I think that if many who are posting comments supportive of Senator Kline's sentiments were to actually read the bill, they would be horrified and realize that we already have numerous existing laws which address the problems that they relate. This bill sounds as though it could be compared with cutting off your hand because you don't want to wash it. Truly cataclysmic stuff.
The only people who voted PRO were WA state employees, and one futurewise lobbyist. SB 5544's own fiscal notes prove there were ZERO infractions for ORV noise in 2006.
Another case of a 'solution' in search of a problem.
This bill is designed for one thing only, and that is to shut down offroad motorized recreation altogether in this state.
It seems that they have successfully cloned Joe Stalin.
The ORV community is, as a rule, slow to catch on. They are typically apolitical. This is their leisure activity, no one wants to get in a big hassle over camping and riding perfectly legal ORVs in a perfectly conscientious manner, on trails that have been around since they were toddlers.
The firearms community was the same way until Leftists started enacting useless, counterproductive and downright dangerous antigun laws and put gun owners on the defensive. Perhaps the ORV community need it's own version of the NRA?
Thanks very much for your insightful and educational posts to this thread. They are sincerely appreciated and provide far more for an understanding of the issue than the posted article or I could have done.
A couple of years back he sponsored a series of radical anti-gun legislation. I wrote to him seeking a clarification on one of the bills. I was respectful in my tone and not even accusatory - just asking questions.
He responded, immediately going to the extreme offensive. He was rude, disrespectful, arrogant (in other words, the perfect Dhimmicrat!). We went back & forth a few times until he told me "Look, I can do anything I want and there ain't a damn thing you can do to stop me. Contact me again and I will get a restraining order against you for stalking"
Yes, I can fully believe that this letter came from this world-class POS!
Just another commie ~ we have them here, too ~ just not as bad as WA state. >:-}
Motorized vehicles rule!!
The Senator and his wife are Personal Injury and Civil Rights attorneys btw.
They personally stand to reap a fortune in frivilous lawsuits by the passage of this bill, as it provides for attorney fees by the moving party, and NOT for the defendant...
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