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To: AnalogReigns; ChicagoHebrew

ChicagoHebrew is correct (not that he needs someone like me to confirm that). Jewish people (and non-Jewish followers like myself) pray for forgiveness for sins--especially for intentional sins.

The ancient canard stating that Jews must obey every law perfectly or burn in hell is just that: a very old lie. And the Roman version of "hell" is not even from Judaism.


48 posted on 03/01/2007 10:57:30 PM PST by familyop
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To: familyop
And the Roman version of "hell" is not even from Judaism.
Maybe so, but Gehenna and Sheol are.
59 posted on 03/02/2007 2:13:49 AM PST by raygun (Forget 'bout throwing nukes (rock) at the 2028 asteroid, eveyrbody knows only paper beats rock.)
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To: familyop; ChicagoHebrew

Nobody is saying that in the Jewish religion one doesn't pray for forgiveness. Of course, like Christians who came out of Judaism, we all pray for forgiveness, especially intentional sins, as they are the worst.

The question I was addressing was the central importance of blood sacrifice--as the Rabbi realizes in the posting here--in ancient biblical-times Judaism.

No one has ever "obeyed the law perfectly" except (according to new covenant or New Testament teaching) Jesus Himself. This is why all need grace from God.

You're right the idea about Hell as a place of burning, accepted in Christianity, is not at all clear from Judaism; almost all such images come directly from the words of Christ himself, not Judaism or Rome.

My argument is only this, in their reliance on blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin, BOTH ancient Judaism, and Christianity, have a basis of grace for salvation and forgiveness, not MERELY prayer (everyone does that) or the human ability to reform or follow ethical precepts.

Read Leviticus sometime, and you'll see the facts are clear, at that time in ANCIENT Judaism, based around the Tabernacle or Temple, "according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission." (NT book of Hebrews 9:22)

Biblical-era Judaism and the Torah was centered around the sacrifices; I'm saying that was a good thing--I'm not libeling Judaism at all.


69 posted on 03/02/2007 6:39:08 AM PST by AnalogReigns
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To: familyop
ChicagoHebrew is correct (not that he needs someone like me to confirm that). Jewish people (and non-Jewish followers like myself) pray for forgiveness for sins--especially for intentional sins.

The Orthodox even pray for the dead, as they have since ancient times.

2 Maccabbees 12:39-46

39 On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his men went to gather up the bodies of the slain and bury them with their kinsmen in their ancestral tombs.
40 But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain.
41 They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden.
42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.
43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;
44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.
45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.
46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.


115 posted on 03/02/2007 11:52:35 AM PST by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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