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Nobody is saying that in the Jewish religion one doesn't pray for forgiveness. Of course, like Christians who came out of Judaism, we all pray for forgiveness, especially intentional sins, as they are the worst.

The question I was addressing was the central importance of blood sacrifice--as the Rabbi realizes in the posting here--in ancient biblical-times Judaism.

No one has ever "obeyed the law perfectly" except (according to new covenant or New Testament teaching) Jesus Himself. This is why all need grace from God.

You're right the idea about Hell as a place of burning, accepted in Christianity, is not at all clear from Judaism; almost all such images come directly from the words of Christ himself, not Judaism or Rome.

My argument is only this, in their reliance on blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin, BOTH ancient Judaism, and Christianity, have a basis of grace for salvation and forgiveness, not MERELY prayer (everyone does that) or the human ability to reform or follow ethical precepts.

Read Leviticus sometime, and you'll see the facts are clear, at that time in ANCIENT Judaism, based around the Tabernacle or Temple, "according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission." (NT book of Hebrews 9:22)

Biblical-era Judaism and the Torah was centered around the sacrifices; I'm saying that was a good thing--I'm not libeling Judaism at all.

Read Leviticus sometime, and you'll see the facts are clear, at that time in ANCIENT Judaism, based around the Tabernacle or Temple, "according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission." (NT book of Hebrews 9:22) Biblical-era Judaism and the Torah was centered around the sacrifices; I'm saying that was a good thing--I'm not libeling Judaism at all.

My god you are thick. I have told you time and time again -- citing sources -- that blood sacrifices in ancient Judaism atoned only for unintentional sins. I have asked you to point me to a single JEWISH source that says differently. Apparently unable to find any, you instead point to a CHRISTIAN source. Guess what: the book of Hebrews isn't a Jewish source. It's a Christian source that is trying to justify the myth that blood sacrifice somehow atoned for all sins. Judaism does not, and never did require or even allow blood sacrifice as a method for atoning for intentional sins.

"Biblical-era Judaism and the Torah was centered around the sacrifices; I'm saying that was a good thing--I'm not libeling Judaism at all."

I can see that you're not trying to libel Judaism (a kind of discernment that I'm learning from more education about creation). I was only saying that the widely believed Christian assumptions on (the commanded) sacrifices and halacha (law) are used to promote libel (the again-popular libel saying that Jewish people have to be perfectly observant or "burn in hell").

First, I'll say that no one came preaching to me to get me to stop being a Christian. I studied for a long time and went asking. ...and asking. Jewish people generally don't missionize or preach to people who are not Jewish. Rabbis (and only a few of them) agree to teach only if we ask (and some, only if we ask more than once).

As for the New Testament, I was a Southern Baptist for most of my life. There were too many lingering questions about that Canon in study for me, so I embarked on study of the history of my former religion (and especially of the New Testament and early Roman councils on that) a few years ago. Over the past 30 years or so, Christianity has also leaned much more toward Marcion-ism. During my study, Mel's passion play came out, and with it, a broadening of public speech against Judaism and against Israel. The study of history (mostly of commentaries from the "fathers of the Church") along with the newer trend of propaganda against Jews (for example, the many recent, generalizing, overemphasizing "Jews are liberals" articles in our conservative discussion boards). The result of the study, BTW, is that I don't refer to the New Testament any more for facts. The events of the past few years only helped to confirm the knowledge that I found.

Zechariah 14