"To say Jesus Christ was a socialist is absolute nonsense"

EL UNIVERSAL (Venezuela) ^ | 24 Feb 2007 | Roberto Giusti

[Kitten Festival]

A Spanish-born Jesuit priest, a social activist and the president of Andrés Bello Catholic University (UCAB), Luis Ugalde answers back the accusations made against him by President Hugo Chávez. The President "claims he likes to discuss such ideas. Well, I am willing to do so, publicly or privately," Ugalde said.

Q: Setting aside President Hugo Chávez' accusations ("a pro-coup priest who has gone nuts"), does it have any importance at all for mankind by now to discuss whether or not Jesus Christ was a socialist?

A: The question should be "for Venezuela" not "for mankind." Chávez is very smart and I am certain that he does not believe in such things as Christ being a socialist.

Q: Does he intend to feed on (the life of) Christ for his political ends, then?

A: Had he said that in Cuba 30 years ago, Chávez knows he would have been forced to take back publicly or be put in jail for heresy. But the situation is quite different now. There was a discussion here on the religious legitimization of Independence. People were taught, through catechism, that if they disagreed with (Spain's King) Fernando VII they were against God. And that is what the Venezuelan Government intends to do: to look for such a legitimization. If (Venezuela's Liberator Simón) Bolívar was a socialist (obviously he was not), if Christ was a socialist, and you run against that model, you are considered to be against Bolívar and Christ. Chávez is a clever communicator; he is good at making spontaneous associations. He associates socialism with love, solidarity, generosity, Bolívar and Christ, and he who disagrees with these is an evil person.

[Kitten Festival]

It's come to this in Venezuela's modern-day debate. Glad this guy said it.

[goldstategop]

In other words, if you agree with Bush, you reek of sulfur and are the Devil. I wonder why our moonbats haven't yet packed their bags and moved to help Comrade Chavez construct 21st Century Socialism in his country.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[WalterSkinner]

..Liberation Theology has been around for a long time--

nothing more than baptized Communism...

[Brad from Tennessee]

Chavez is a Marxist. A couple of years ago he began to go after the Church. About a million people appeared in Caracas on the street, including members of the military and government workers, in support of the Church. Chavez backed down. Chavez would outlaw religion if he could get away with it.

[RichInOC]

Jesus is a royalist. What else would the King of Kings be?

[rpgdfmx]

Chavez is a Marxist. A couple of years ago he began to go after the Church.

Not quite true. Both his parents were Cathecists (a word I can't spell... "officially" recognized Catholic Church teachers). We may not like his interpretation of Church teaching, but his Catholicism isn't new. His version of Catholicism was extremely influential on Venezuelan officers of his generation, so many being, like him, from rural religious families.

[HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath]

Jesus was and is an eternalist, and wants you to join him in forever.

[Miss Didi]

There's an old, beat up station wagon in my neighborhood with various anti-war, anti-Bush bumper stickers...one says, "Jesus was a Liberal."

[Swordmaker]

This question is a non-starter. Jesus makes no bones about what he is...

he is a theocrat.

[Fred Hayek]

A Jesuit gets it right - Jesus was not a socialist.

This is like the question "what would Jesus drive".

I would say a well worn Chevy or Ford pickup truck, with a big toolbox and lumber rack in back. The Carpenter was a business owner before His forty day fasting journey into the desert.

[RichInOC]

Heh. You forgot the bumper sticker..."Live Better. Follow Me."

[Jorge]

How many Christian nations do you know that are socialist?

[theBuckwheat]

Not only was Jesus not a socialist, He knew what socialists were, because socialism is founded on the violation of three of the Ten Commandments: lies, coveting and theft.

Further, Jesus gave several free market parables that illustrated the blessings and prosperity that can only come because two of the Ten Commandments protect property: the commandment against coveting and the one against theft.

Two short parables of interest are the one of the Treasure in the Field and the Valuable Pearl, found in Matthew 13, verses 44-45.

The best parable that illustrates free market property rights is found in the Workers in the Vineyard in Matthew 20, a parable that ends with the very powerful and distinctly anti-socialist question, "Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money?" (Matt. 20:15).

Other rights and principles that are expressed in this parable are: the right to own your own labor, the right to negotiate your wage, the right to expect that a wage agreement will be honored, the right to own land, the right to control and farm your own land, the right to profit from the labor of others.

Socialism is so far from the values that God expresses in the Bible, that unless they repent and turn from it, they will not attain salvation, for at its heart, socialism is based on a lie. Revelation 22:15 states that "everyone who loves and practices falsehood" will be kept outside of the Holy City, and not be allowed access to the tree of life.

[sgtyork]

Additionally, as Hayek describes Socialism must be coercive. In order to bring about equality, freedom is reduced and fellow citizens are considered objects to be molded to the elite's preferences.

God loves us all individually, subjectively, and socialism makes us objects.

The Anchoress writes about this.....

http://theanchoressonline.com/2006/07/08/you-are-not-human-to-me/

It's the source of every sin. I used to think the source of sin was connected to vanity, pride and selfishness…but even those things are all about treating others as things, or even treating ourselves as mere things. We forget that we are created creatures, begotten - as in loved into being. In our exceedingly polarized world we increasingly lose sight of that, to the point where we cease to see each other as human beings at all -

[chuckles]

When people start quoting Bible verse to prove Jesus was a commie, the are missing the point of the Bible. The Bible was written for "GOD'S PEOPLE". It doesn't apply to the doomed. When God said give to the poor, He meant YOU give to the poor. It says nothing about stealing my money so you can give to to pet causes. Jesus expects His church to help people, not pawn your responsibility off on the government. The Chavez's of the world want you to forget God and worship government. There are many churches today that send hungry people to the government welfare office down the street rather than feed them themselves.

The "treasure" you store up in heaven is what you DO down here, not how much taxes you pay.

PS, as an aside, the Bible also says God will destroy the Earth, not mankind. We may do some damage, but God will pronounce judgment on this rock. We set off 2 atomic bombs in Japan and they lived through it just fine as a country. Global Warming is a farce because we cannot do anything as people to damage the earth. It is arrogant to believe we can. It just shows God's awesome power that He and He alone can speak worlds into existence and out, in complete destruction.

[I still care]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1718576/posts

I had bookmarked this s while ago, seems a good place to post it.

[ModelBreaker]

Not only was Jesus not a socialist, He knew what socialists were, because socialism is founded on the violation of three of the Ten Commandments: lies, coveting and theft.

Actually, I think it much goes deeper than that. The basic socialist idea is if you get enough smart people and give them almost absolute power, they can remake society in their image. That man knows enough to make those kinds of judgments and have them come out right.

That is the sin of Adam. Eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and trying to become like God.

[Brad from Tennessee]

I agree but he has sparred with the church since taking office. I think like any socialist he envisions an idealized Venezuela without religion. The church--unless it is a total puppet of government as in the old USSR--competes with the state for personal allegiance:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/americas/3341771.stm

[theBuckwheat]

Socialism does indeed go deeper than I wrote, but this is FreeRepublic, which is not a place for lengthy comments. I was trying to be pity.

Socialism is an attempt by people who reject the true righteousness that only God can define with a secular utopia, where what is right and wrong is defined by the fashion and passion of the moment, an idolatry commonly called 'social justice'.