.........oh it's the "AP".....nevermind..
Posted on 02/24/2007 5:33:41 AM PST by AirBorn
Americans underestimate Iraqi death toll By NANCY BENAC,
Associated Press Writer
40 minutes ago
Americans are keenly aware of how many U.S. forces have lost their lives in Iraq, according to a new AP-Ipsos poll. But they woefully underestimate the number of Iraqi civilians who have been killed.
When the poll was conducted earlier this month, a little more than 3,100 U.S. troops had been killed. The midpoint estimate among those polled was right on target, at about 3,000.
Far from a vague statistic, the death toll is painfully real for many Americans. Seventeen percent in the poll know someone who has been killed or wounded in Iraq. And among adults under 35, those closest to the ages of those deployed, 27 percent know someone who has been killed or wounded.
For Daniel Herman, a lawyer in New Castle, Pa., a co-worker's nephew is the human face of the dead.
"This is a fairly rural area," he said. "When somebody dies, ... you hear about it. It makes it very concrete to you."
The number of Iraqis killed, however, is much harder to pin down, and that uncertainty is perhaps reflected in Americans' tendency to lowball the Iraqi death toll by tens of thousands.
Iraqi civilian deaths are estimated at more than 54,000 and could be much higher; some unofficial estimates range into the hundreds of thousands. The U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq reports more than 34,000 deaths in 2006 alone.
Among those polled for the AP survey, however, the median estimate of Iraqi deaths was 9,890. The median is the point at which half the estimates were higher and half lower.
Christopher Gelpi, a Duke University political scientist who tracks public opinion on war casualties, said a better understanding of the Iraqi death toll probably wouldn't change already negative public attitudes toward the war much. People in democracies generally don't shy away from inflicting civilian casualties, he said, and they may be even more tolerant of them in situations such as Iraq, where many of the civilian deaths are caused by other Iraqis.
"You have to look at who's doing the killing," said Neal Crawford, a restaurant manager in Suttons Bay, Mich., who guessed that about 10,000 Iraqis had been killed. "If these people are dying because a roadside bomb goes off or if there's an insurgent attack in a marketplace, it's an unfortunate circumstance of war — people die."
Gelpi said that while Americans may not view Iraqi deaths through the same prism as American losses, they may use the Iraqi death toll to gauge progress, or lack thereof, on the U.S. effort to promote a stable, secure democracy in Iraq.
To many, he said, "the fact that so many are being killed is an indication that we're not succeeding."
Any poll results on who the surveyed think killed all these people? After all, the dead Iraqi's didn't die of old age or natural causes.
This is a very logical point, but irrelevant to the average American. Most people understand, in an abstract way, that Saddam killed more people than we did, and that the deaths are mostly caused by terrorists, not us. They just don't care. The fact that we are involved at all makes them feel somehow responsible.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but they'd rather let Iraq go Rwanda on itself than to have us involved. If we're not there, they don't care what happens. But the very presence of our troops makes them feel that we as a whole are suddenly responsible for the death rate being so high. The fact that it was higher before we got there, and will be higher if we pull out, is utterly irrelevant to them.
Ask around. The average independent/moderate and liberal feels exactly as I have described.
.........oh it's the "AP".....nevermind..
This is pure propaganda and is unlikely. When we use the word "know" someone, we mean "know of" or "have a relationship with."
I will accept the former and reject the latter.
There are 300 million people in the USA. There are 3000+- deaths in Iraq. That means in a city of 100,000 over a four year period, one person has died. It is not likely that those folks are saying they "know" someone are thinking in terms of "have a relationship with."
It means they read it in the paper or know of a relative of a relative who had a relationship with.
This article is propaganda.
Begging the question, "killed by whom?"
If we pull out too soon the numbers will increase dramatically.
An I'll wager that they are counting dead terrorists as "civilians" as well.
Seriously, I got a good belly laugh from that. Thanks.
Ouch! Harsh, but fair.
It's a good point, though. Most of America is not invested in this fight. In fact, most of America goes out of their way to remain ignorant of it. I'd love to walk around my neighborhood with a world map, and see how many people can find Iraq on the first three tries, but I'd probably regret trying. They don't know because they don't care, and they assume that others will provide for their defense. All they have to do is keep shopping, pay taxes, and if they're really patriotic, not watch the news, and they feel they're doing their part.
:)
I've been paying for lessons from Lazamataz.
The Master.
And we can't have any focus on the fact that actual Iraqis are dying in defense of their country either.
Exactly, it's what I like to call, "willful detachment."
Here's a death toll the AP never seemed to be bothered by:
Secretary of State Albright was also criticized for defending the sanctions of Iraq under Saddam Hussein, which led to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. In 1996, she made highly controversial remarks in an interview with Lesley Stahl on CBS's 60 Minutes. Asked by Stahl with regards to effect of sanctions against Iraq: "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?". Albright replied: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price -- we think the price is worth it."
The number of Iraqis killed, however, is much harder to pin down, and that uncertainty is perhaps reflected in Americans' tendency to lowball the Iraqi death toll by tens of thousands.
So, are they saying that we don't know how many Iraqis have been killed, but we Americans are saying the number is lower than it really is, but we don't know what it really is?
We know how many American heroes there are, we can guess how many innocent citizens were killed but no one mentions how many bad guys have been killed and their nationality. Are the insurgents in the civilian number?
Yet they never bring up the fact that illegal aliens are killing more Americans (innocent civilians) here in our own country, than are being killed in Iraq and it's not even close.
It makes you look like a loon, and does nothing to further your stance.
Irrespective...the road that opens in front of this warped thinking, if we follow it, will lead to far, far more American deaths. I pray we have, as a people, the wisdom and the virtue to turn from it.
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