Christopher F. Gelp
Associate Professor of Political Science at Duke University
People in democracies generally don't shy away from inflicting civilian casualties
Posted on 02/24/2007 5:33:41 AM PST by AirBorn
Americans underestimate Iraqi death toll By NANCY BENAC,
Associated Press Writer
40 minutes ago
Americans are keenly aware of how many U.S. forces have lost their lives in Iraq, according to a new AP-Ipsos poll. But they woefully underestimate the number of Iraqi civilians who have been killed.
When the poll was conducted earlier this month, a little more than 3,100 U.S. troops had been killed. The midpoint estimate among those polled was right on target, at about 3,000.
Far from a vague statistic, the death toll is painfully real for many Americans. Seventeen percent in the poll know someone who has been killed or wounded in Iraq. And among adults under 35, those closest to the ages of those deployed, 27 percent know someone who has been killed or wounded.
For Daniel Herman, a lawyer in New Castle, Pa., a co-worker's nephew is the human face of the dead.
"This is a fairly rural area," he said. "When somebody dies, ... you hear about it. It makes it very concrete to you."
The number of Iraqis killed, however, is much harder to pin down, and that uncertainty is perhaps reflected in Americans' tendency to lowball the Iraqi death toll by tens of thousands.
Iraqi civilian deaths are estimated at more than 54,000 and could be much higher; some unofficial estimates range into the hundreds of thousands. The U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq reports more than 34,000 deaths in 2006 alone.
Among those polled for the AP survey, however, the median estimate of Iraqi deaths was 9,890. The median is the point at which half the estimates were higher and half lower.
Christopher Gelpi, a Duke University political scientist who tracks public opinion on war casualties, said a better understanding of the Iraqi death toll probably wouldn't change already negative public attitudes toward the war much. People in democracies generally don't shy away from inflicting civilian casualties, he said, and they may be even more tolerant of them in situations such as Iraq, where many of the civilian deaths are caused by other Iraqis.
"You have to look at who's doing the killing," said Neal Crawford, a restaurant manager in Suttons Bay, Mich., who guessed that about 10,000 Iraqis had been killed. "If these people are dying because a roadside bomb goes off or if there's an insurgent attack in a marketplace, it's an unfortunate circumstance of war — people die."
Gelpi said that while Americans may not view Iraqi deaths through the same prism as American losses, they may use the Iraqi death toll to gauge progress, or lack thereof, on the U.S. effort to promote a stable, secure democracy in Iraq.
To many, he said, "the fact that so many are being killed is an indication that we're not succeeding."
Here we go again- "WHAT Have we learned here AGAIN Boys & Girls??? Let's see....
The INTERNET Serach Engines, Being PRIVATELY OWNED -VIA those Billionaire Liberals who Started them -has been IN and WILL CONTINUE to be in the Hands of the LIBERALS!! and if NOT all of them now ARE--they soon will be!! Yahoo News- MSN Search Engines and Goggle!-
And we All Know towards WHAT ENDS!!THEY ALREADY Control the PRINT media and Electric--NOW the Media that can BRAIN WASH EVERY high schooler that get MISSED by Moving On and their Liberal Teachers and Teacher/Union professors!
Just ANOTHER " Let's PICK, Present and PORTRAY WHICH Liberal, Bush Bashing, America-Hating, Troop-Bashing, Positive Views on Socialism/Communism Views News Items WE wish to Push and Promote-and THEN Editorialize on them!
".....according to a new AP-Ipsos poll."
Another POLL--ANOTHER Chance at Dictating to the AMERICAN PUBLIC what is "Means"--maybe because WE in the MEDIA already know that the American people are too STUPID to know what anything means anyhow!!--THAT is why we TELL them what the Realities of the Owrld are!!--WE DO IT AS A FAVOR..a "Service"...Like the N.Y. Slimes does for the Terrorists; so THEY don't have to worry and guess WHICH SECRET OPERATIONS the American Military is running this month or next!
FORGET about what the Story really even MEANS!!--we ALL know that the media is HAMMERING! and HAMMERING!! and HAMMERING!! Against the War- Against Bush! But this came out at 7:45--give it til 8 am for MORE "Yahoo News" Articles and others on the INTERNET Expound upon this story--and the TALKING HEADS ON News get their hands on it!
THE INTERNET Search Engines should be REGULATED- IF the Libbies want a "Fairness Doctrine" for Radio or Other News then!! Cause the INTERNET in LIBERAL HANDS is the BIGGEST THREAT to Our Freedoms - and NO-ONE is noticing it- and NO-ONE can "Touch" the OWNERS of those Liberal Search Engines either!
There is so much ANTI-WAR /"Bush's War" Comments jammed into this one Yahoo Story-you can see it for yourself.
Other Related Threads here :
Iraqi Death Toll - Fact or Fiction? CNSNews ^ | 10/16/06 | Kate Monaghan
Posted on 10/16/2006 12:26:39 PM PDT by presidio9
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1720409/posts
------------------------------------------------------
Bush Dismisses Iraq Death Toll Study AP ^ | 10/12/06
Posted on 10/12/2006 7:29:59 AM PDT by Valin
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1718080/posts
------------------------------------------------- War's Iraqi Death Toll Tops 50,000 L.A.Times ^ | June 25, 2006 | Louise Roug and Doug Smith
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1655268/posts
Just today's dose of AP agitprop.
What about the Iraqi military and police??? Don't they deserve a mention?
Huh. The Quakers told me it was 400,000. I guess it's not so bad. Ye-HA! Let's keep bombing those civilians!
Just trying to PLANT another "Thought" into Americans Heads??
OR Preparing the WAY for the TALKING HEADS to PARROT THIS COMMENT for a few weeks!
Remember the word, " QUAGMIRE " ??????
Let's see HOW MANY TIMES WE HEAR on the NEWS,
"........AMERICANS Today are HAVE BEEN using the POOR, UN-INVOLVED, DYING-HOMELESS-PENNYLESS-Eating Dirt D-E-A-D IRAQI CHILDREN "Numbers" and IRQI DEATH COUNTS"--as a "...GAUGE of PROGRESS..." on BUSH'S WAR ON TERROR..."
More "stick it in your eye" reporting by the folks at the "lancet" ???
I wonder if these Iraqi civilian deaths include the terrorists, who wear no government uniform? Civilian deaths are a part of war, when one side or the other chooses to make them a part of war--clearly, al qaeda has. Our prayers continue for our troops and innocents in danger.
Nobody was wrongfully dying in Iraq before our troops arrived, you see.
Nobody.
Better the deaths are over there. When we pull out the civilian deaths will be in the good ole USA.
Do they mention that it is the TERRORISTS that are killing them, no.
Do they mention that if we leave millions more will be killed, NO of course not.
THEY do Not count because--naturally--THEY are in the Group that
" SUPPORT the WAR on Terror " to FREE their Nation.
And THEREFORE--THAT Menas they " Support Bush "--if ebvn in a Round about way.
Remember what RUSH said once about the MEDIA being like the CLINTONS--
The MEDIA Just doesn't attack and TAKE OUT "YOU"; But Your WIFE, Kids, DOG, House- and JOB, Savings--until YOU are "Made a Lesson"!!
(Maybe THAT is why their OWN DEMS are Scared of HILLARY Getting in--maybe she'd USE the FBI/CIA to "Settle a few old scores!)
But LAUGH ALL WE WANT--The INTERNET SEARCH ENGINES Have TAKEN OVER the Print Media--so the Libbies really ARE NOT LOSING OUT On their "Reach"--in fact if anything--GAINING Cause the WHOLE WORLD goes to the INTERNET!!
Think FAST CONSERVATIVES!!
Unless some SERIOUS MOJO is done--we are doomed-
WHO DO WE HAVE TO SPREAD THE CORRECT VERSION of EVENTS and NEWS??
Freepers here??
....cause WE HAVE NO-ONE--except "Door-to-door" Warriors--whose numbers are SHRINKING!
ANnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnndddddddd
Those who say,"..I'M SORRY I can not go to your SUPPORT THE WALL Rally--Even though it's ON A SATURDAY/WEEKEND..and even though I KNEW ABOUT IT IN WELL ADVANCE.....cause I ALWAYS go DRINKING on ST. PADDY'S DAY--To me THAT'S MORE IMPORTANT than Showing the MEDIA that WE won't take it anymore!!
I mean.,..GOD F-O-R-B-I-D !! I Miss a day DRINKING on St.Paddy's day!!.....
Like we can count on THEM?
I am mad enough already about the SLIMES Giving away the Ethiopian War Secrets!! and a CONSERVATIVE Newspaper said when we marched on the Slimes last time that, " ..it was UNFORTUNATE that some Protest Warriors decide to PROTEST the SLIMES at their building..cause it showed they were not thinking about the FREEDOM OF THE PRESS!!!"-GEE! With friends like THAT-who needs liberals!!
Gotta Go--my SIX DAY working this week to save money so I can go to the 17th's Rally.
Did the MSM care how many innocent people Saddam killed. Also, how many Jews will die if Iran nukes Israel?
"Nobody was wrongfully dying in Iraq before our troops arrived, you see.
Nobody."
You're close to my answer.
Under Saddam: 400,000 in mass graves + 1,000,000 in Iran/Iraq war= 1.4 million over 25 years=56,000 per year. That is a CONSERVATIVE estimate of KNOWN dead. I've seen estimates 1,000,000 higher.
So since the US defeat of Saddam 4x56000=224,000 who WOULD have been dead let alone any terrorist activity he might have sponsored (dirty bombs? nukes?), and one can only conclude the Iraqis are in good shape.
This story has been out there since yesterday afternoon. It's good thing you're not hyping it with your big red and blue lettering and the fact you put it in Breaking News.
I say bullshit big time.
The US had barely 250k personnel in Europe by March, 1918, which subsequently grew to 1m by July and 2m by November. In just a matter of months, from the summer of 1918 till Nov 11, we experienced 50,000 war deaths. In fact, during the Meuse offensive (9/26-11/11), there were 18,000 deaths or almost 400 per DAY!
And to what end? What existential threat did Germany pose to the US? And yet, if one criticized our involvement to even the slightest degree, they ran the risk of imprisonment.
That's where Bush really went wrong - not imposing controls over US media like Wilson & FDR did during their respective war tenures. The idea that our involvement is subject to this type of defeatist propaganda is simply amazing.
People in democracies generally don't shy away from inflicting civilian casualties
That would be akin to clapping with one hand. If Bush went wrong by not imposing controls on the press, he also went wrong by not mobilizing the country, which would have included a universal service bill and nationalizing the necessary manufaturing base.
As it is, our enemies are only fighting a small fraction of us.
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