[Alberta's Child]

Rudy Giuliani ping.

If you've been pinged to this thread, it's probably because I've come across some interesting comments from you -- for or against Rudy Giuliani -- on another thread.

If you weren't pinged but find this thread interesting -- well, no big deal . . . you managed to find it anyay. LOL.

If you wish you hadn't been pinged -- well, too bad . . . I don't keep a ping list, so you probably won't hear from me again anyway. :-)

[Constitution Day]

Hmm, makes me wonder what my "interesting comments" were.

I'll give it a read.
Thanks for not adding me to any ping list — I'm on enough already.

[Enosh]

I made an interesting comment somewhere?

Hmph. Didn't see that one coming... ;^P

(Nice post, BTW.)

[Hydroshock]

I know this, I will nto be voting for Rino Rudy. Period.

[proudpapa]

Regarding Rudy.

He would make a fine Senator from New York. And nothing more.


Better to be the Hunter than the hunted.

[PhilDragoo]

I didn't ask to be on this ping list, but I am asking to be removed from it. Thank you.

[ex-snook]

Thanks for ping.

Giuliani?

LIMBO PARTY - GOP - How low can the neo-cons drive you go and still be conservative?

[OldFriend]

Please remove me from your navel gazing commentary.

[Reagan Man]

Good rant!

>>>>>1. Rudy Giuliani is really a conservative. Freepers who use this argument will often cite examples -- sometimes accurate, sometimes exaggerated, but occasionally even downright false .... The biggest flaw in this approach is that his track record is only “conservative” if you focus entirely on these specific issues and ignore the rest of them.

This references the obligatory list of accomplishments while Rudy was Mayor of NYCity. Accomplishments by NYCity standards maybe, not by conservative standards, however. Acting with some fiscal restraint doesn't make Rudy a fiscal conservative. Since we know that Rudy is a social liberal, by any honest standard of measure, we know that he isn't interested in those issues important to most conservatives. And this starts with his support for big government, more gun control, abortion on demand, amnesty and gay rights.

Sorry Rudy, I'll pass on your liberalism.

[pogo101]

If you wish you hadn't been pinged -- well, too bad

Nice attitude. Maybe I should add you to a few ping lists that you don't want to be on.

[Mr. Silverback]

If you've been pinged to this thread, it's probably because I've come across some interesting comments from you -- for or against Rudy Giuliani -- on another thread.

"They think I'm interesting!"

[ctdonath2]

Nicely put.

Particularly insightful was the absence of certain photos.

[trisham]

What an absolutely stunning piece of analysis, AC. There aren't enough superlatives to do it justice. Well done.

[Al Simmons]

Well, the GOP voters will pick who they want to pick. And this forum (despite some delusions of grandeur among some of its members) won't have diddly to do with it.

Unlike some Ostriches on this forum, I WILL support whoever the GOP nominee is against "Stalin in a pantsuit" in November.

And while I am leaning towards Rudy because I think he can win, I'm keeping my mind open.

But paeans of Rudy character assassination that are flooding FR and that consistently ignore or downplay THE key issue of our day - National Security - on which issue Rudy has a hands-down advantage, aren't gonna sway my mind. If anything, the more over-the-top some of y'all are, the more I'm leaning towards supporting him in the primaries (and living in CA, this is my one chance to make my vote count - given recent CA presidential trends).

So you all go on and forget RWR's 11th Commandment, act holier-than-though, and thump your Bibles til you're blue in the face.

You're not gonna change anyone's minds that way.

And in the end, when the votes are cast, all this screeching will amount to is "sound and fury, signifying nothing."

[Liz]

Excellent post, AC. Effectively lifts the veil shrouding Rudy's grab for the presidency. Guiliani is being carefully groomed for public consumption, undergoing an Extreme Makeover, as a "new Republican."

His emergence as 2008 Rudy mark him as a rank opportunist who was sent to Obedience School, emerging as the eager lapdog of those who are bent on radically changing American culture.

We need to reinforce the fact that 2008 Rudy's zigzagging and flip-flopping on issues indicate he will take whatever positions his handlers tell him to take.

The myth about Giuliani's credentials on homeland security, and military matters.....is entirely manufactured by his handlers.

CASE IN POINT: Giuliani recently "lost" his mayoral campaign's vulnerabilities playbook. He publicly blamed the "opposition" (Hillary's old VRWC trick).

Julie-Annie wanted us to believe that an airport employee knew precisely in which bag, and in which binder the critical documents were, sneaked them out of the bag, copied them, then stealthily returned them to the bag without anyone knowing it.

Giuliani's campaign organization obviously has a leaker, and Julie-Annie did not deal with it?

He placed blame on "someone" at the airport. If he was so sure it was an airport employee, did he demand an investigation? Did he file charges?

No, he did not because he knew the story was bogus .......and don't forget that Giuliani is the owner and operator of a multi-million dollar "security" company (formerly known as Giuliani-Kerik LLC).

"Security expert" Rudy co-opted GWB into naming his mobbed-up buddy, Bernie Kerik, as Home/Land/Sec chief (Kerik is Rudy's former driver and bodyguard). Kerik was ushered out the WH door when dirt spilled about his hiring an illgal nanny. Married Kerik was also having trysts in an apartment set-aside for 9/11 workers. Kerik later pleaded guilty to misdemeanors for accepting gifts from a company that was trying to do business with New York while he was corrections commissioner.

Giuliani and Kerik were partners in a SECURITY company, and Julie-Annie STILL didn't vett Kerik? Leaving the president of the United States embarrased before a global audience was of no concern to this so-called "security expert?"

Security expert, my Aunt Tilly---I wouldn't let Giuliani walk my dog.

[Dat Mon]

Excellent post, and thanks for the ping.

Its nice to see someone think through and lay things out as you have done...this is the kind of FR stuff that puts this place on the notable political Internet sites...one that other analysts and commentators go to for 'raw material'.

Id like to add some more fuel to the fire. ;0)

Ive seen others such as dirtboy question Guiliani's 'judgment', and Spiff and Liz lay out Guilianis real record on abortion, most notably partial birth abortion, an act of brutality and barbarism that cannot, IMHO, be tolerated nor countenanced by an aware moral person.

There's a number of these valid questions...but let me take it one step further.

I question his psychology, and his character to be President....and this is coming from someone who was a big fan of Rudy back in 2000 when he initially ran against Hillary.

I dont question his ability to be....

An effective Federal prosecutor..he was one.

An effective mayor of the largest and most complex city in the US...he was one.

A successful business partner and leader...he apparently is one.

In fact...I dont question his leadership qualities per se, he wrote a book about it.

Let me also put aside, for arguments sake only, other specifics as to whether he is a liberal, the strict constructionist issue, 2nd amendment rights etc...what it comes down to ...for me...

I don't think he has that 'special skill set'; i.e, that peculiar combination of qualities of leadership, toughness, experience base, intelligence, AND...those personal and moral qualities that we need at this time, to lead this country through some potentially very tough times ahead.

I think a hard fought primary and general election campaign, whereby all of Rudy's dirty laundry gets aired, and where he has to perform and compete up against Duncan Hunter, Mitt Romney, and Newt, and then whomever the Dems nominate, will convince other people of this; enough, in fact, so as to make him unelectable.

Nobody's perfect in all categories (except perhaps Washington!), I could compromise in some areas if I absolutely have to..but I think basic character, integrity, and judgment issues are nonnegotiable for me.

An honest man can change his positions over time, happens all the time, a DISHONEST man WILL change his positions in time, (when it is required in order to get what he really wants), but a person cannot easily and readily change who they really are .

[WFTR]

If you've been pinged to this thread, it's probably because I've come across some interesting comments from you -- for or against Rudy Giuliani -- on another thread.

If I fall into this category, I'm flattered. Even if I don't qualify, I appreciate your comments. Like you, I find Rudy Giuliani to be the most objectionable candidate on the Republican side. I fear what he would do in office, and I fear what he would do as the nominal head of the Republican Party. If he represents what the Republican Party will now believe, then the Republican Party doesn't represent me.

Bill

[marron]

I see you got a pretty good response from your piece, which is well written I might add.

I won't be supporting Giuliani during the primary, I will support someone who agrees with me on more than 21%.

I agree with all of Giuliani's detractors, which is reason enough not to support him during the primary. I am leaning toward Hunter and Gingrich, either one of whom would be head and shoulders above Giuliani in my view. Giuliani is a Lieberman Republican. I love Lieberman, but he's a Democrat (for the moment, recognizing that he may be forced out at some point). He and Giuliani both would fit nicely in a Democratic Party that had not gone completely crazy.

But it has gone completely crazy.

And we're in a war. The bottom line is we need someone prepared to lead us through. None of the Democrats running will be capable of doing that, and none of them want to. As much as I don't like Giuliani, he will fight, I believe. Some of the lesser lights running on the Republican side will not have the guts to take the pounding that a war will bring. Giuliani does, Hunter does, Gingrich does.

But a "Lieberman Republican" in the White House for most of a decade would definitely cause us no end of heart-burn, something like Swartzenegger in California, but with a bigger stage to play on. So I'm going to push for my candidates during the primary. But if its Giuliani, come November 08, versus some Democrat trying to out-Murtha Murtha, its an easy choice.

[BigSkyFreeper]

Take me off your ping list. I didn't give you permission to ping me.

[Fierce Allegiance]

Great post, thanks for the ping.

[fireforeffect]

Alberta's Child

Kindly remove me from your ping list for Rudy Giuliani.

I did not ask to be on it and want off.