Posted on 02/22/2007 8:58:34 AM PST by Reagan Man
Giuliani has a tough road ahead in South Carolina, which is to host the first Southern primaries in 2008. His moderate positions on gun control and support for abortion rights do not sit well with the state's Christian conservatives, who accounted for a third of the 2000 GOP primary vote. Those voters swung heavily to President Bush that year, giving him a 2-1 ratio margin over Arizona Sen. John McCain, who was viewed as soft on abortion.
On Wednesday, Giuliani reiterated his own position.
"I'd advise my daughter or anyone else not to have an abortion," Giuliani said. "I'd like to see it ended, but ultimately I believe that a woman has the right to choose.
"I believe that you've got to run based on who you are, what you really are and then people actually get a right to disagree with you," he said. "And I find if you do it that way, even people who disagree with you sometimes respect you."
Not really. The lines are clear. I would not be comfortable saying it is relative to the situation because that implies too much. It opens the door to more justification of death than I would ever feel comfortable with. Murder or the threat of murder/death is the only valid reason for ending life. God gives life and numbers our days. Man should only take life that is either a threat to human life or has human blood on its hands. Destroying innocent life just for convenience is despicable.
The Bill of Rights and the rest of the Constitution establish certain SPECIFIC rights. They do NOT make sweeping statements like "everyone can do whatever they want, as long as they don't hurt anyone." No adult believes that rights are unlimited. No civilized society anywhere has ever believed that. The Founders were very conscious of the risks of anarchy as well as those of tyranny.
Let's get back to the issue, which is Rudy G. and abortion. Your so fixated on "rights," but do you think people below a certain age have no rights? History shows that societies which allow abortion move on to deprive other classes of humans of the right to life, such as the very old (euthanasia), the mentally deficient, and so on. We're seeing that progression right now in Europe.
I can see a spiritual descendant of Rudy G. saying: "Personally, I'm opposed to killing off Grandpa, but only until he's 90, or only after he's had a stroke. But I believe the children should have the choice of whether he lives. I think it's their right."
Am I not correct that the great Rudy G. ran the prostitutes out of Times Square? Didn't they have a right to do whatever they want? This is America; we can't impose our prudish morality about "sex professionals" on others, can we? And Rudy put a stop to squeegee men, who were just entrepreneurs plying their trade. Whattaya know. Maybe even Rudy believes in some kind of restraints. Just not when it involves innocent life.
I support the Constitution as is is written, according to the intent of the men who drafted it, not as bizarrely and illogically extended by the courts. I have said nothing here remotely referring to religion. I may have opinions on that issue, but they are almost identical to those of the men who founded our Republic.
Most people would consider "the Constitution is about freedom" to be nothing more than a slogan. It's a legal document, not a manifesto.
You had asked...'how can the same God give us the right to murder innocent children'.
The lines are clear that ending a human life depends on the situation, doesn't it? As you say...threat = ok, abortion = not ok...isn't that depending on the situation? Either way, a human life has been ended.
Anyway, did you not decide to have a child? Did you not decide to take care of her? Is this not an abdication of responsibility, throwing her out of the house? Who would do that to a poor child?
You don't seem to understand that the child is choosing to put her child through a meat-grinder.
Are you going to stand by and say, "whatever"?
Look at these photos and tell me that you would stand by and let your daughter slaughter her own child.
2nd and 3rs trimester abortions
Revelation 3:15-16I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarmneither hot nor coldI am about to vomit you out of my mouth.
Proverbs 24:11
Rescue those being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter.
I challenged you to provide any founding document of the U.S. which says that "they have a right to do everything they want, as long as it doesn't harm others."
You then proceed to dodge, evade, and not respond. Come on, open those "nifty books" and find an answer to my question.
"The Founders had a state that was half slave and half free. And it was 1787. You can't compare that with 2007."
Oh. I guess you're one of those who think the Constitution is a "living, breathing document?" Or maybe that we should ignore it entirely, because it was written by a bunch of bigoted dead white men?
I notice you don't deny being under 20...hehe. My self-image is just fine, by the way.
"Yet you propose a government in which state and local government have the right to control every aspect of our lives, to combat supposed 'immoralities' like drinking or gambling."
Nowhere did I "propose" any such government. I simply said that local governments had the authority under the Constitution to do things like that. Always have and probably always will. There has never been a society anywhere on earth which lived according to your fantasies.
You were the one who said there was an absolute right to gamble or get drunk. When I referred to doing drugs..well, I regard alcohol as just another drug. Civilized society condones its use but regulates it. And no, I never did drugs. If you didn't either, congratulations on having good sense about something.
No wonder why I couldn't figure out what you were getting at. God can give us the right to life and the right to murder?
God is the God of reason, not contradiction. God cannot do the contradictory or nonsensical. This is not a limitation of God, but a sign of His infinite perfection.
God gives us the right to make war doesn't He? Have all wars been right? Where is the sense in plagues, or starvation, or natuaral disasters? How do you know what God can or cannot do?
Wow. How generous of him to pay the hit man.
Cordially,
Then you don't believe in the American form of government.
Where do unalienable rights come from? Society? If so, rights can be rescinded by society. Ourselves? Same problem. The State? The State can vote to rescind rights.
Eternal rights can only come from an eternal lawgiver, God. And God cannot give us the right to do evil. So no one enjoys an unalienable right to do evil, even if these evils don't immediately affect others.
The State my permit evils for prudential reasons, but not because people enjoy a God-given right to do evil. This is where libertarian thought is so fundamentally confused.
We allow all kinds of activities to go on in "public places." People get up and make speeches, pass out leaflets, hold art exhibits, play musical instruments, etc. Why not allow those nice "sex workers" to ply their trade, hmm? They're not "harming anybody, and "everyone can do whatever they want, as long as they don't hurt anyone." Everyone knows prostitution is a victimless crime, just like gambling or getting drunk, right?
Oh, now you admit that rights are limited by the rights of other people?
Then the right of a woman to "choose" abortion is null because she is depriving another human being of the paramount right, the right to life.
Game, set, match. Thanks for showing how flawed the "pro-choice" position is.
As for historic precedents, try the Soviet Union. Abortion was a "right," and officially encouraged. That's about the only right anyone had over there.
Then there's modern Europe, which is following the logical progression from abortion/infanticide, to euthanasia of the old, to assisted suicide for the mentally ill, etc.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.