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Ramos/Compean...A Bad Shoot
FR | 2-21-07 | Bob J

Posted on 02/21/2007 2:55:38 AM PST by Bob J

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To: Bob J

This looks like something from moveon.org and it appears a pack of jackals from there have joined the fun by posting in support of the conviction of the two agents.


61 posted on 02/21/2007 6:01:12 AM PST by em2vn
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To: James Ewell Brown Stuart

"Well, I come up with this "crap" from reading the threads."


Well, James, you've got a mind of your own. Yes, some people try to use the *broad brush* as a propaganda tool. (if you lie enough times, it becomes the truth) I'm not going to fall for it because I've seen it used too many times. The best one (or I) can do is bring it to the attention of those who are blind to it's intention.


62 posted on 02/21/2007 6:04:12 AM PST by wolfcreek (Please Lord, May I be, one who sees what's in front of me.)
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To: Bob J
Not for nothing but all this is nothing but your opinion, suppositions and projection.....

"The mule takes off, Campeon, mad at being dodged by the mule, getting his uniform dirty and dropping his shotgun in the mud, scrambles up to the top of ditch and climbs to the top of a levee road that is just south of the ditch. He starts emptying his pistol at the fleeing mule. He gets off 11 rounds, changes magazines and shoots again. Amazingly, he misses on every round which I find hard to believe. It is possible Campeon is missing on purpose and is only trying to scare the mule. He's mad, but not stupid. He knows a shooting in this situation would be wholly unjustified"......you have no way of knowing what they were thinking or feeling.

"After a few short responses, the agents switched to their local radios which is not recorded. It is my opinion they did this for several reasons.".....exactly, your opinion.

"When he does get out, he runs over to Campeons side, possibly believing there was an exchange of gunfire."....... 'possibly believing'? Possibly? not very definiitive is it.

"Campeon is in shock. I don't think he ever intended to take the guy down"......Did a doctor or EMS say he was in shock? Do you even know the true definition of the word? You don't 'think' he ever intended to take him down? Was there testimony from Campeon to this effect or is it more of your supposition?

"Campeon stops to pickup his shell casings and then throws them in the river. Standard procedure."....I thought you said Campeon was in shock. This is pretty good thinking for someone so out of it. And, btw, when did destroying evidenvce of a shooting become SOP?

Who was the prosecution's chief witness? Wasn't it a drug smuggler who was offered immunity and other incentives?

63 posted on 02/21/2007 6:07:46 AM PST by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: Bob J
It was a bad shoot that they tried to cover up and the Justice Dept. could not just turn their heads. Horrible all around for everyone, but crapping on the law and the Constitution wouldn't make it any better.

You're the one taking the crap.

64 posted on 02/21/2007 6:11:30 AM PST by Fitzcarraldo (If the Moon didn't exist, people would have traveled to Mars by now.)
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To: Bob J
My brother is a LEO and I am a former MP (among other things), so my first reaction is to resist second-guessing the folks on the line be they military or police. However, there are times when cops and soldiers do cross the line and break the law themselves. Sometimes it is "cutting corners" trying to carry out the mission, sometimes it is for more nefarious purposes, sometimes it is just getting carried away in the heat of the moment.

In any event, we do hold our people to higher standards and I am quite certain that 99.9% of them are very proud to exceed them. Unfortunately, there is a tiny minority of bad apples that need to be pulled out before they can spoil the rest.
65 posted on 02/21/2007 6:14:00 AM PST by RebelBanker (May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.)
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To: Bob J
You declare that your research shows that "Campeon was in shock".

Definition of shock from NIH...

Shock is a life-threatening condition that occurs when the body is not getting enough blood flow. This can damage multiple organs. Shock requires IMMEDIATE medical treatment and can get worse very rapidly.

Did campeon get immediate medical assistance for this life threatening condition or are you just talking out your a** to fit your own bias?

66 posted on 02/21/2007 6:14:34 AM PST by wtc911 (You can't get there from here)
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To: Bob J
I don't think he ever intended to take the guy down, how could he miss 15 shots from a distance of 75 yards?


Pistols really aren't intended for accurate shooting at that distance. it is very credible to empty two magazines at that distance while standing and miss with all the shots.

Granted, a skilled and deliberate shooter can get a group of a couple inches off a sandbag rest at 25 yards, but when blasting at a man-sized target at 5 yards, a 6 inch group might be expected, which means a spread about 8 feet wide at 75 yards, leaving room to have missed with all the shots (64 square-foot dispersion of 20 shots, or less than one per three square feet: a man-sized target that is crouching while being shot at.)

Don't know if this meaningfully affects your analysis.
67 posted on 02/21/2007 6:15:04 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: squidward
If you are referring to either Sutton or Kanof, they have been lying and hiding the truth from the beginning. They have no credibility.

These two men were framed and the message is to the BP agents: Let the invasion of this country continue.

68 posted on 02/21/2007 6:20:23 AM PST by Dante3
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To: James Ewell Brown Stuart

Those nominal Mohammedans are much more apt to fold under pressure from their jihad-minded coreligionists than are nominal Christians apt to do the will of their church when under pressure. That pressure is also always near to the Mussulman and seldom even perceptible to the Christian.


69 posted on 02/21/2007 6:28:20 AM PST by arthurus (Better to fight them over THERE than over HERE)
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To: wolfcreek
Boy, did you miss the point of my comment to BobJ. Missed it low and outside.

Do not worry... I do bring it to the broadbrusher's attention... but let's not kid ourself as to how frequently the broadbrush is employed not just as propaganda but as "serious" debate )fully aware of what they are doing).

70 posted on 02/21/2007 6:29:54 AM PST by James Ewell Brown Stuart (I support the President and the war on terror!)
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To: arthurus

Fine...


71 posted on 02/21/2007 6:31:07 AM PST by James Ewell Brown Stuart (I support the President and the war on terror!)
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To: Bob J
On the way back to the ditch, Campeon stops to pickup his shell casings and then throws them in the river. Standard procedure.

I take it that you're being sarcastic about "standard procedure."

72 posted on 02/21/2007 6:43:10 AM PST by r9etb
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To: wolfcreek
Where do you guys get this crap? I don't know of anyone on this forum who believes "all Muslims are terrorists".

Then you're not paying attention.

73 posted on 02/21/2007 6:47:51 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Bob J
So what is it boys?

Well, I tend to believe them(Ramos and Compean) and not your analysis.

74 posted on 02/21/2007 6:54:05 AM PST by AndrewC (Duckpond, LLD, JSD (all honorary))
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To: Bob J

I'm sure you will be vilified by those who have been campaigning for their release.

However, I would like you to answer one question if you would....

I read somewhere that the "smuggler" had been given immunity in order to testify and was then caught with a SECOND shipment while the "trial" was in progress...is that TRUE...???

This is one rotten onion of multiple layers.


75 posted on 02/21/2007 7:06:06 AM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: Bob J

The Washington Times and I believe also The Washington Post as well as some politicians of both parties in Washington have come out in support of Ramos and Compean. The prosecutors and judge framed these men who were guilty at most of some minor infractions.


76 posted on 02/21/2007 7:09:21 AM PST by Dante3
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To: wolfcreek

I've been attacked on SEVERAL threads when I didn't instantly buy into the "sudden jihad syndrome" lynch mob on the Salt Lake shooter's behalf.

Heaven FORBID you should actually "question" anyone who's been on this website longer than yourself....as if "seniority" is some kind of test of veracity....???


77 posted on 02/21/2007 7:09:49 AM PST by JB in Whitefish
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To: Thommas

SO should we let every person convicted by a jury out of jail, if the court system is so rigged? How do we justify putting ANYBODY in jail if they have a trial be jury?

Or is if just those people who can get a small but vocal political support going for them?


78 posted on 02/21/2007 7:24:05 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: glymers
If a american citizen were to get caught with 700+ lbs of dope, he would go to the clinker in a heartbeat, no matter what

Yes -- well actually they'd probably get immunity to testify against the suppliers and the people who sell it, but your point is made.

Which is why it's just too bad that the smuggler was not actually "caught". If an american citizen was chased away from a car but not caught, if the agents couldn't identify him, and if no evidence tied anybody to the car, nobody would go to jail even if the car had 700 pounds of dope in it.

79 posted on 02/21/2007 7:26:39 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: em2vn

Have some factual issue with anything Bob wrote?

Or is name-calling your forte?


80 posted on 02/21/2007 7:27:28 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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