THE MARINES

PBS.org ^

[KeyLargo]

Just a heads up for interested freepers.

The Marines

Examining the unique warrior culture of the United States Marine Corps, this documentary focuses on Marine training, the strong bonds between Marines and their devotion to the corps.

"Semper Fidelis, always faithful. You'll take the corpse off the battlefield even if it means your own life ... Alive or dead, they come back with you."

- Nancy Sherman, professor and author of Stoic Warriors

THE MARINES, airing Wednesday, February 21, 2007, 9:00-10:30 p.m. ET on PBS, examines the unique "Warrior Culture" of the smallest but fiercest branch of the U.S. armed services. With significant access to Marine Corps training facilities in Parris Island, South Carolina; Quantico, Virginia; and Twentynine Palms, California, THE MARINES reveals what it takes and what it means to be a Marine - from the first moments of a recruit's arrival at boot camp.

THE MARINES offers extensive coverage of the often grueling Marine Corps training, including the Martial Arts Program, confidence course and intense rifle range instruction. The program also demonstrates how the Marines evaluate and shape their future leaders with the rigorous Officer Candidate Leadership reaction course and infamous "Quigley" exercise.

More than 30 current and former Marines of all ranks, authors and military correspondents were interviewed to tell the story of the rich history, traditions and continuing importance of the Marine Corps and the warrior ethos it instills.

"How the Warrior Culture is engrained and how it sets the Marines apart from other armed services branches are critical aspects of Marine development and understanding," said producer/writer/director John Grant. "This program offers an in-depth and unvarnished look at the rigorous physical and psychological training employed to create this tenaciously loyal, highly skilled breed of combatant ready to defend country and comrade at any cost."

Other segments of THE MARINES focus on the Wounded Warrior Barracks in Camp Lejeune, North Carolina; the new Marine Corps Museum in Quantico, Virginia; and women in the Marines. The program also travels to the country's largest Marine base in California, where Marines are seen training in mock Iraqi villages just weeks before deployment overseas.

Underwriters: Alfiero Family Charitable Foundation, Public Television Viewers and PBS.

[quadrant]

I agree with a couple of your points but disagree with others.
The Corps has become far too "administrative." Too many generals and too many officers - too much like the Army.
The Corps needs to expand its grunt base, not by increasing the number of units but by enlarging each unit, by going from a triadic structure to a quadratic one; that is, four fire teams per squad, four squads per platoon, four platoons per company, etc. All this could be done with any real increase in the number of officers.

I have no particular objection to eliminating the guard duty function; it is anachronistic. However, I do not believe that such a move would put that many more boots on the ground.

Establishing a Marine Corps DARPA would accelerate the "administrative" bloat that already grips the Corps. It is unfortunate that the Marine Corps must rely - to a certain extent - on the other branches for R&D but its a price that must be paid to keep down the growth of uniformed paper shufflers.

Under no circumstances should the Corps establish "elite" units within its ranks. The Corps does not need to imitate the Army with its silly paraphernalia of badges, wings, and patches, all of which serve to inflate the ego of the wearer, but do nothing to further the mission of the service. Moreover, once this precedent is established, earning this junk becomes a Station of the Cross for ambitious officers, many of whom have no reason to need them except to further their careers. The paraphernalia itself becomes a badge of competence and the key to entry into some sort of "elite" fraternity. Unlike the Army, the Corps needs to reform, not wholesale, top-to-bottom change.

[RushLake]

"Being PBS, I have an expectation of 'faint praise' for the Corp, and the strong expectation that they'll find a way to say "how can anyone be a warrior and be a genuine, 21st century non-barbarian human being?"

Yep. The People's PBS has been no friend to me or my country. I too will withhold judgement. LCPL RushLake USMC, our son, is standing in the breach this morning. A Blue Star Nother's flag is proudly displayed on our front door.

[SaintDismas]

Josh got his EGA pinned on his hat by his commander on the Friday before the graduation on Saturday. They were in their Charlie uniforms and it was more of an emotional experience than the graduation, since that was the moment he became a Marine. And so they graduated that next day AS MARINES. I will never forget it

[JoeSixPack1]

...since that was the moment he became a Marine.

Things must have changed since I graduated. (73)

[carolinalivin]

My son went through basic in San Diego in 99. They did the crucible at Pendleton, which I belive was the original site. It had been reinstated as part of basic recent to his training. The DIs were comparing non-crucible and crucible training and of course some pride in the reinstatement.

[carolinalivin]

My son was a Marine Security Guard in Honduras and Jordan. I have a response to your recommendation about creating a special sub-set of guard duty marines.

In effect, I think that is already done informally by the training they receive at Quantico.

It would seem advantageous to me that those embassy guards have the full marine training and experience. We have had fire fights , rescues, and bombings at various embassies. It would seem that fully trained marines wuld be needed in many places.

the current system calls for two 15 month tours so that the marine does not get too familiar with the locals and be susceptible to approaches from spies and unfriendly elements in the country. So they move them after 15 months and return them to another MOS.

Creating a formal sub-group could impair the promotional opportunites for marines and reduce the number who may want to perform guard duty.

My thoughts.

[carolinalivin]

Joe, when you were in basic did you ride horses?

[USMCWife6869]

My husband went through boot camp in '93, and they weren't doing it yet at that point. He has said, however, that he thought it would have been a great experience. He does wish he could have done it.

When I saw the end march of the Crucible and they EGA ceremony, it was at Camp Pendleton, and I believe it was '00. It was amazing.

[JoeSixPack1]

We had dinosaurs and big rocks! AND.. we wore sabretooth tiger tails around our necks for protection against stegosaurus attacks!!

But we were not allowed to accept the title "United States Marine" until we were dismissed from graduation ceremony. All the trinkets in the world didn't change that.

[carolinalivin]

My son had the same experience as you. Not until he graduated basic. The crucible was a big day and he called us when he completed it, but it was not quite the end of basic. I think he had 3 days left until graduation. After attending the graduation ceremony, I don't see how anything could replace that as a right of passage.

[chesty_puller]

TIVO set, thanks.

[JoeSixPack1]

I don't think i remember anything of the last 3 days of boot except finding my cover on the parade deck after being dismissed! :-)

Semper Fi

[ASOC]

U.S. Marines, the American Samurai (Chapter 1)

From the book, Warrior Culture of the US Marines.

More books here

[Popocatapetl]

Such a wonderful straight line. (For which the response is: "No, I'm not a Marine. My parents are married.")

I was Army. However, I not only have a lot of Marines in the family (some going way back), but also military historians. I mean no slight to the Marines, and my suggestions are considered and reasoned.

To start with, a reorg is past due for the Marines exclusively because of mission changes. The details I leave up to the master war gamers whose job it is to get Marines there, whack the enemy, and get them home safe. That overrides any consideration for traditional organization.

As far as guard duty goes, the weirdness in int'l law says that "Marines aren't soldiers, so they can guard embassies". And as much as it might 'build character', individual Marines are just way too expensive and valuable to place in such assignments any more.

The R&D for the Marine Corps, if similar to DARPA and ONR, would be mostly civilian run, but with a military interface with the Corps command structure. Again, if it is anything like DARPA and ONR, it is some of the best "bang for the buck" you can buy. Down to the level of private, many DARPA innovations increase comfort and safety, but also increase lethality and combat stamina. Their motto would be "We don't make the Marine. We make the Marine better."

Finally, as far as elite units task org'ed out to special missions, the Marines were very down on the idea, but have since decided that it is not just good, but very good. The personnel who have been on such missions give rave reviews.

[SaintDismas]

That's my understanding...am I wrong about this?

[quark]

If PBS pointy-heads want a picture of the Corps, they should get "Full Metal Jacket" on DVD and watch "Mail Call" on the History Channel. Gunny Ermey will give it straight to these pe***r-necks!

[oh8eleven]

The Marines need several things as a branch now independent from the Navy.
Now independent? The MC is still part of the Dept. of the Navy and has been for a loooooong time. Note the fouled line around the anchor...

Their current organization is far too administrative, and less practical than it should be.
What (and why) are you suggesting - less brass? What does less practical mean?

Congress could create a separate sub-branch of "guard Marines", who are distinct from combat Marines, to perform this duty in the future.
So, embassy guards should be little more than "poster Marines?"

Marines to establish elite units within their organization
I just don't think you have a working knowledge of the Marine Corps.

[JoeSixPack1]

I don't know what they tell them in todays Corps, but in my time the title wasn't earned until you are dismissed from boot camp. Close doesn't count.

Semper Fi

[BnBlFlag]

In my day at PI, the whole twelve weeks were a "Crucible".
We not only had our asses ran all over the Island, but kicked all over it as well. Gunny Ermey would have been considered the "Good Guy" in our DI contingent. This was Pre-Vietnam and the DI's had plenty of time to "mess with your mind".
There was not only no "Pogey bait" but God help you if you received a cake or cookies in the mail. You would have eat the whole thing and wash it down with soapy water. And there were no phone calls until you got to LeJuene after Graduation for ITR (Infantry Training Regiment) which all newly minted Marines had to go through.
While the training was thorough it was really a Rite of Initiation into the Brotherhood of the Corps as much as anything else.
Having said that, the Corps has gotten way too PC at the higher levels as evidenced by the persection of the Haditha Marines and others in Iraq. If this is not corrected it will eventually destroy the Corps as a unique organization as it has always been in the past.

[SaintDismas]

Well, I'm just a parent and maybe I was hallucinating...