Replies

"What part of those things were in the supposedly conservative Contract with America?"

Huh? What does that have to do with anything?

Are you trying to say that if opposition to abortion rights, gay rights and gun control were not listed in the contract with America they're not conservative positions?

Are you actually trying to push the idea that a man who believes in abortion, partial birth abortion, gay unions, gun control, etc, is really a conservative after all? And that those of is who oppose these positions are in the wrong?

#1. If those issues were so darned important to Republicans, like the number one issues I see being discussed here, why weren't they in the Contract for America? It's a perfectly reasonable question for which no one has an answer.

So I'll give an answer. Because there was a day (like back in the early 90's when the contract was developed) when Republicans considered other issues besides social issues as more important. Things like the viability of the nation fiscally and militarily.

#2. Are you trying to say that if opposition to abortion rights, gay rights and gun control were not listed in the contract with America they're not conservative positions?

You're not serious asking that question, are you? You're just trying to push my buttons. I never suggested such a thing and you know it.

#3.Are you actually trying to push the idea that a man who believes in abortion, partial birth abortion, gay unions, gun control, etc, is really a conservative after all?

I've never said that Rudy was socially conservative. Are you trying to push the idea that there is only one kind of conservative? You are aware, I presume, that there are fiscal conservatives and law and order conservatives, etc., etc.

And now I can really see that you haven't read any of the links on this thread about Rudy because conservative reporters like Bob Tyrell, whose conservative credentials go back further than pretty much anyone else alive, makes the case convincingly that Rudy is conservative. Just not your kind of conservative.

FrontPage magazine conservative reporters make the case. Mona Charen makes the case. 98% lifetime conservative voting record Rep. Sessions makes the case. A host of individuals make the case for Rudy and using conservative - fiscal, law and order conservatism, to make the case.

#4. And that those of is who oppose these positions are in the wrong?

And how has I pushed the idea that those of you who seem to think socially conservative ideas are most important are wrong about anything? LOL. We disagree about what's most important. Period. Don't make it into more than it is.

I wish Rudy had different positions on abortion and other issues.

But I try to live in the real world, and in that world we have a finite number of truly electable candidates for the Republican nomination. I am not under some delusion that another Ronald Reagan is going to magically appear on the scene. Rudy looks to me to be the best bet to defeat Hillary, so that's the starting point for my wanting to support him.

Beyond that, a lot changed for me after 9-11. It is now extremely important to me that if I put myself in the position of bin Laden with a suitcase nuke, I want a president in office who he is going to think "maybe I'd better not use this thing, or just maybe Mecca is going to go away." If Hillary were in charge, he'd probably risk it. I don't think he would if Rudy were calling those shots.

THAT is the issue that will drive my vote the most- who will protect my kids from the bin Ladens of the world? And I'm willing to overlook some things if I think I've found that candidate. If that makes me a bad conservative, so be it.

The 2004 Republican Party Platform made the GOP position quite clear to me regarding the stance taken at that time (Aug. 2004) on abortion. Now if we are going to have Rudy as the nominee, it would appear - given his pro-choice stand- that some very difficult ground will have to be covered, lest a serious fracture result. Based on my reading of the excerpt that follows, from the 2004 platform, a Rudy nomination implies that some serious adjustments lie ahead for some folks.

Promoting a Culture of Life (pg. 92, 2004 Republican Party Platform)
"As a country, we must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.

Our goal is to ensure that women with problem pregnancies have the kind of support, material and otherwise, they need for themselves and for their babies, not to be punitive towards those for whose difficult situation we have only compassion. We oppose abortion, but our pro-life agenda does not include punitive action against women who have an abortion. We salute those who provide alternatives to abortion and offer adoption services, and we commend Congressional Republicans for expanding assistance to adopting families and for removing racial barriers to adoption. We join the President in supporting crisis pregnancy programs and parental notification laws. And we applaud President Bush for allowing states to extend health care coverage to unborn children. We praise the President for his bold leadership in defense of life. We praise him for signing the Born Alive Infants Protection Act. This important legislation ensures that every infant born alive – including an infant who survives an abortion procedure – is considered a person under federal law.

We praise Republicans in Congress for passing, with strong bipartisan support, a ban on the inhumane procedure known as partial birth abortion. And we applaud President Bush for signing legislation outlawing partial birth abortion and for vigorously defending it in the courts.

In signing the partial birth abortion ban, President Bush reminded us that “the most basic duty of government is to defend the life of the innocent. Every person, however frail or vulnerable, has a place and a purpose in this world..."