Posted on 02/15/2007 2:29:41 PM PST by PapaBear3625
You may have a point. Both groups seek to control the daily personal activities of their adherents to a degree that is astonishing to Christians. And both have a holy book that is held in higher spiritual esteem than the Bible. And both tend toward an us-them view of the larger world.
From my reading of the linked story, the disappearing imam seems to be the one OBJECTING to the suspicious people and the financial oddnesses, and this caused the rest of the board to want him out.
My suspicion is that the board felt the imam was not sufficiently "on board" with what was going on, and decided he had to go.
Take a look at the Islamic concepts of Taqiyya and Kitman. It is OK to lie to infidels, either openly (Taqiyya) or by omission(Kitman).
In the quote, the spokesman says "There is no record that Talovic attended...". The assumption they lead the reader into is that there WOULD be a record of attendance. Does anybody here think that mosques keep written records of attendance?
So, if the dude was there every day, and everybody saw him, as long as there was no written record, then the imam's statement would be technically true (but misleading)
That is untrue.
I am a Mormon, and there is no control or compulsion in the Church.
For instance, we are asked to "keep the Sabbath Day holy".
There is never any detail of what that means. You will never hear a sermon explaining what is appropriate and what is forbidden.
I'm sick of these media gasbags who keep trying to excuse away this murderous jihadi with "human interest" stories about the traumas of his upbringing, or how is "culture" didn't fit in very well in Utah, or how Bosnian refugees are not "accepted" into American society.
Coffee, anyone?
I think you and all the other "experts" on the subject should watch the video of the dazed and confused parents...
http://kutv.com/video/?id=23459@kutv.dayport.com">http://kutv.com/video/?id=23459@kutv.dayport.com
Oh, I remember reading about that for some reason. There is more to that story.
Amazing coincidence, isn't it?
I'm sure they're dazed and confused - anyone would be if their kid had an episode of Sudden Jihad Syndrome. It doesn't change his actions any, nor does it give credence to the sympathetic attempts of the media gasbags to "understand" his frustration.
Information for any that wish to help the grieving families and those injured in this tragedy:
* Zions Bank has established two accounts, one in injured mother Carolyn Tuft's name and the other in her 15-year-old daughter's name, Kirsten Hinckley, a Brighton High sophomore who died. Donations can be made at any Utah branch.
* Zions Bank also has created a fund for injured A.J. Walker, 16. Donations may be made in care of his mother, Vickie Walker.
* To honor victim Vanessa Antrobus Quinn, a scholarship fund has been created. Donations can be made to the Vanessa Quinn Memorial, account No. 9031592, accepted at any America First Credit Union branch; or c/o Eagle Savings, 6415 Bridgetown Rd., Cincinnati, OH 45248. Checks should be made to: Eagle Savings/Vanessa Antrobus Quinn Scholarship Fund.
* Chase Bank, where Teresa Blair Ellis worked as an assistant manager in the West Valley City branch, has set up a memorial fund to be directed by her family. Donations can be made at any branch office in her name.
* The family of Brad Frantz has set up a trust fund for his 3-year-old daughter, Deijah Isabel O'Neill. Donations, which should be made using the child's full name, can be made at any U.S. Bank branch.
* A fund has been established to help defray medical expenses of Stacy Hanson, who was critically injured in the Trolley Square shootings. To contribute to the fund, which is under Hanson's name, contact Zions Bank.
* Wells Fargo Bank has established the Trolley Square Memorial Fund to benefit the families of all of the shooting victims. Donations can be made at any Utah branch.
...please pass along this information to all that wish to help...and let us pray for them and their lost beloved.
Trolley Square: A search for answers
He fled a war with his family as a child and came to Utah as a refugee. He floated from school to school before dropping out. A Muslim, he sometimes attended a Salt Lake City mosque for Friday prayers before landing a full-time job to help support his parents and three sisters.
Although he was a loner and withdrawn, Sulejman Talovic seemed normal and "nice" to the few people who knew him.
On Wednesday - two days after Talovic shot and killed five people and injured four others at Trolley Square - there were no good answers as to why he would do it.
There were no signs that the 18-year-old was in trouble, family members said.
"No, he was very good," his uncle, Sadik Omerovic, said Wednesday.
Talovic was shot to death by police about six minutes after he began his killing. His family says his father wants to take the body back to his homeland for burial.
The shooting rampage came as a "very big surprise for me," Omerovic said. "It just happened. We're shocked."
Also a mystery to Talovic's relatives is how he got a shotgun and handgun.
"Nobody knows," Omerovic said. "We don't know who [gave] him the guns."
Lori Dyer, resident agent in charge of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in Utah, said the bureau has no information indicating Talovic obtained the guns or ammunition illegally. But the ATF still needs to do more research on the guns' histories.
Omerovic said Talovic had no history of violence. "He never, never [hurt anyone]. He was very nice person."
In an interview with KUTV 2 News, the gunman's father could not make sense of his son's violence at Trolley Square. He said his son did not take drugs. "I think somebody push him. I don't know. I'm almost crazy with what happened. Maybe somebody sell gun or give gun."
Sulejman Talovic was born in Bosnia in 1988, when that country was a peaceful and a relatively prosperous part of Yugoslavia. In 1993, a year after the Bosnian war began, he and his family were forced from their eastern Bosnian town and became refugees. He arrived in Utah with his mother in 1998, a year after his father, Suljo Talovic, arrived.
The family, which includes three girls, ages 13, 11, and 7, has a home in northwestern Salt Lake City.
Sulejman Talovic's aunt, Ajka Omerovic, said she doesn't know why her nephew became a mass murderer, but claimed neither he nor the rest of her family has any lingering psychological effects from the war in Bosnia.
"We all suffered things in war, but, no, we didn't have anything," she said.
Ajka Omerovic said she never knew her nephew to shoot firearms.
Although he quit school at 16, Sulejman Talovic often attended Friday prayers at the Al-Noor mosque on 700 East in Salt Lake City, said Salih Omerovic, Ajka's cousin.
Salih Omerovic said the young man stopped coming to the prayers in December, when he landed a full-time job at Aramark Uniform Services in South Salt Lake. He said Sulejman Talovic's father had pressured his son to get a job to help out with the family's living expenses.
Imam Ali Mohamed, the spiritual leader at Al-Noor, said he does not know Talovic.
"I know some Bosnians, but specifically this person, I don't know him," said Mohamed, a Somali who has been in Utah since 2000.
Up to 200 people turn out for Friday prayers and there is not much socializing, said Maung Maung, who attends the mosque.
Talovic's Muslim faith prompted questions about a possible political motivation for his killing spree, but the FBI in Salt Lake City said Wednesday it has no evidence that politics played a role.
FBI spokesman Patrick Kiernan said Wednesday the bureau is trying to help police determine why Sulejman Talovic killed five people, and agents have looked into whether religion or terrorism were factors.
"We're working closely with the Salt Lake P.D. and we're obviously aware that that [terrorism] is a potential issue out there," Kiernan said. "We've not seen anything that this is terrorism or an act against the government."
Before his rampage, Talovic worked from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. and gave no one cause for alarm, said his boss, Trent Thorn, Aramark's general manager.
As always, he said, Talovic "just stayed to himself. He just worked. What people in the community are saying he was like is what he was like here."
Nothing out of the ordinary happened that day that would explain Talovic's actions, Thorn added.
The Talovic family's neighbors also said they knew little about Talovic, describing him as a quiet teen who kept to himself.
That isolation might be making it more difficult to determine why Talovic killed and wounded people at Trolley Square.
Salt Lake City police spokeswoman Robin Snyder said Wednesday that police have not discerned a motive or found anything resembling a suicide note. With the permission of Talovic's parents, detectives searched their home but did not take any computers or video games, she said.
"The family was very cooperative with officers," Snyder said.
Talovic's body is at the state medical examiner for autopsy. When it is released to the family, said aunt Ajka Omerovic, Talovic's father wants to take it to Tuzla, Bosnia, for burial.
ncarlisle@sltrib.com
shunt@sltrib.com
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* Tribune reporters MICHAEL N. WESTLEY, RUSS RIZZO AND JESSICA RAVITZ and news editor BRENT ISRAELSEN contributed to this story.
And Baptists aren't supposed to drink or dance. Guess what? Some do.
How is that any different?
"Wanna know why Baptists don't have sex while standing up? 'Cause somebody might think they're dancing!"
"How do you tell Baptists from Presbyterians? Baptists don't speak to one another in the liquor store!"
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