Posted on 02/15/2007 10:12:09 AM PST by meg88
Pundits of all political persuasions have been chattering about whether Rudy Giuliani, whose name is invariably modified by the description "social liberal," can overcome the objections of many religious conservatives to win the Republican nomination.
Will his assurances to appoint judges in the mold of Roberts, Alito and Scalia be "enough" to put their concerns to rest? Will conservatives overlook social issues in an election focusing largely on foreign policy?
The more interesting question is whether Giuliani can establish a new description of what it means to be "socially conservative." Perhaps to be socially conservative means something more than just fidelity to pro-life and anti-gay marriage positions.
Giuliani has a convincing argument that he is an ethical or cultural conservative who in the end will protect the values that most conservative Republicans hold dear.
What does this mean? It means that he sees the world as a battle between good and evil, and politics as a struggle between decent hard working people and elites who have too little respect for their values -- public safety, respect for religion and public virtue.
His world view is not one of multi-culturalism or moral relativism. He shows no empathy for bullies -- be they Mafia bosses or Al Sharpton. Giuliani, of course, first rose to public prominence by fighting the largest bully he could find: the Mob. Time magazine called his prosecution in 1985 of 11 Mafia leaders the "Case of Cases" and quoted his declared intention to "wipe out the five families."
For him, it is all about who is good and who is not, regardless of whose feathers he might ruffle.
Liberal sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians and diplomatic niceties did not prevent him from tossing Yasser Arafat (with great delight) from Lincoln Center.
(Excerpt) Read more at spectator.org ...
---"Add spending cuts."---
Spending went up under Rudy, as did City debt.
Unless you're going to pull a Liberal talking point and say that a decrease in the rate of increase is a "cut."
OK -- So now the Giuliani camp is so convinced that their attempts to twist his track record have failed, they're now going to turn him into a "social conservative" by redefining what it means to be a social conservative. LOL.
Giuliani has a convincing argument that he is an ethical or cultural conservative who in the end will protect the values that most conservative Republicans hold dear.
No, he doesn't. If he had a convincing argument, he wouldn't have to make an argument at all.
. . . and politics as a struggle between decent hard working people and elites who have too little respect for their values -- public safety, respect for religion and public virtue.
Complete BS. Rudy Giuliani has long been firmly in the back pocket of large corporate interests ever since he entered politics.
The bar is officially lying on the ground now.
So instead of getting 90-95% of what you want in a candidate, you will sit on your hands and see Hillary elected?
Another fringe, unappeasable, one issue voter that would turn down half a glass of water if he was thristing to death because the glass was all the way full of water.
RIno Rudy's new conservatism is what we called liberalism in Houston. Not thanks.
On President Bill Clinton: Shortly before his last-minute endorsement of Bob Dole in the 1996 presidential election, Giuliani told the Post's Jack Newfield that "most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine." -Rudy! An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani, Wayne Barrett.
The Real Rudy Giuliani:
From Human Events:
Rudy's Strong Pro-Abortion Stance
As these comments from a 1989 conversation with Phil Donahue show, Rudy Giuliani is staunchly in favor of abortion:
"I've said that I'll uphold a woman's right of choice, that I will fund abortion so that a poor woman is not deprived of a right that others can exercise, and that I would oppose going back to a day in which abortions were illegal.
I do that in spite of my own personal reservations. I have a daughter now; if a close relative or a daughter were pregnant, I would give my personal advice, my religious and moral views ...
Donahue: Which would be to continue the pregnancy.
Giuliani: Which would be that I would help her with taking care of the baby. But if the ultimate choice of the woman - my daughter or any other woman - would be that in this particular circumstance [if she had] to have an abortion, I'd support that. I'd give my daughter the money for it."
Worse yet, Giuliani even supports partial birth abortion:
"I'm pro-choice. I'm pro-gay rights,Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. "No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing," he responded." -- CNN.com, "Inside Politics" Dec 2, 1999
It's bad enough that Rudy is so adamantly pro-abortion, but consider what that could mean when it comes time to select Supreme Court Justices. Does the description of Giuliani that you've just read make you think he's going to select an originalist like Clarence Thomas, who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade -- or does it make you think he would prefer justices like Sandra Day O'Connor and Anthony Kennedy who'd leave Roe v. Wade in place?
Rudy's abortion stance is bad news for conservatives who are pro-life or who are concerned about getting originalist judges on the Supreme Court.
An Anti-Second Amendment Candidate
In the last couple of election cycles, 2nd Amendment issues have moved to the back burner mainly because even Democratic candidates have learned that being tagged with the "gun grabber" label is political poison.
Unfortunately, Rudy Giuliani is a proponent of gun control who supported the Brady Bill and the Assault Weapon Ban.
Do Republicans really want to abandon their strong 2nd Amendment stance by selecting a pro-gun control nominee?
Soft on Gay Marriage
Other than tax cuts, the biggest domestic issue of the 2004 election was President Bush's support of a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as being between a man and a woman. Unfortunately, Rudy Giuliani has taken a "Kerryesque" position on gay marriage.
Although Rudy, like John Kerry, has said that marriage should remain between a man and a woman, he also supports civil unions, "marched in gay-pride parades" ...dressed up in drag on national television for a skit on Saturday Night Live (and moved in with a) wealthy gay couple" after his divorce. He also very vocally opposed running on a gay marriage amendment:
His thoughts on the gay-marriage amendment? "I don't think you should run a campaign on this issue," he told the Daily News earlier this month. "I think it would be a mistake for anybody to run a campaign on it -- the Democrats, the president, or anybody else."
Here's more from the New York Daily News:
"Rudy Giuliani came out yesterday against President Bush's call for a ban on gay marriage.
The former mayor, who Vice President Cheney joked the other night is after his job, vigorously defended the President on his post-9/11 leadership but made clear he disagrees with Bush's proposal to rewrite the Constitution to outlaw gays and lesbians from tying the knot.
"I don't think it's ripe for decision at this point," he said on NBC's "Meet the Press."
"I certainly wouldn't support [a ban] at this time," added Giuliani..."
Although Rudy may grudgingly say he doesn't support gay marriage (and it would be political suicide for him to do otherwise), where he really stands on the issue is an open question.
Pro-Illegal Immigration
As Tom Bevan of RealClearPolitics has pointed out, Rudy is an adherent of the same approach to illegal immigration that John McCain, Ted Kennedy, George Bush, and Harry Reid have championed:
"While McCain has taken heat for his support of comprehensive immigration reform, Rudy is every bit as pro-immigration as McCain - if not more so. On the O'Reilly Factor last week Giuliani argued for a "practical approach" to immigration and cited his efforts as Mayor of New York City to "regularize" illegal immigrants by providing them with access to city services like public education to "make their lives reasonable." Giuliani did say that "a tremendous amount of money should be put into the physical security" needed to stop the flow of illegal immigrants coming across the border, but his overall position on immigration is essentially indistinguishable from McCain's."
That's bad enough. But, as Michelle Malkin has revealed, under Giuliani, New York was an illegal alien sanctuary and "America's Mayor" actually sued the federal government in an effort to keep New York City employees from having to cooperate with the INS:
"When Congress enacted immigration reform laws that forbade local governments from barring employees from cooperating with the INS, Mayor Rudy Giuliani filed suit against the feds in 1997. He was rebuffed by two lower courts, which ruled that the sanctuary order amounted to special treatment for illegal aliens and were nothing more than an unlawful effort to flaunt federal enforcement efforts against illegal aliens. In January 2000, the Supreme Court rejected his appeal, but Giuliani vowed to ignore the law."
If you agree with the way that Nancy Pelosi and Company deal with illegal immigration, then you'll find the way that Rudy Giuliani tackles the issue to be right down your alley.
---"So instead of getting 90-95% of what you want in a candidate, you will sit on your hands and see Hillary elected?"---
Rudy: about 15% (if we take him at his word on some things)
Hillary: about 5% (if we take it at its word)
No, I will actively work to get a Third Party candidate on the ballot. You have bad math - 90-95%?!?!?! What universe do you live in?
Sad that something the founders would have understood completely (having set the whole thing up that way) is now viewed as an "odd campaign slogan"...
Sorry, but the right to life is absolutely basic. It is the most fundamental of the inalienable rights. Killing babies is not compatible with traditional morality.
I'll correct your post:
---"Another fringe, unappeasable, fifty issue voter that would turn down half a glass of arsenic if he was thristing to death because the glass was full of arsenic."---
There, fixed it.
Spending went up under Rudy, as did City debt. Unless you're going to pull a Liberal talking point and say that a decrease in the rate of increase is a "cut."
No, don't pull your dumb talking pint with me.
Spending was less than the rate of inflation.
That's different than the false "spending cuts" talking point the libs use.
Would you like me to explain it further to you or are you smart enough to know the difference.
Super list.
Notice not one thing refuted his anti-gun or pro roe v wade agenda.
Nor his help assisting illegal aliens break the law.
The house dems just introduced a new "assault weapons" bill. If rudy gets into office, having called for a federal ban before, would he sign it?
Newt probably is the best to hold the conservative standard in the fall right now
We've already been through this. Rudy is not "90-95% of what [we] want" in any sense of the phrase.
The Rudy glass really is full . . . full of poison. And FReepers are gleefully pouring it down their gullets.
If it's Hillary vs Rudy, we lose the election either way. If Rudy wins, we lose the party to boot.
I will not, under any circumstances, vote for the death of my party.
You mean you're tired of nobody but you supporting the candidates that appeal to you.
Your candidates are out there, but nobody's voting for them, so you want to take your ball and go home.
Well, that's democracy for you. Call out the "whaaambulance."
What this article means is that conservatives should give up concrete principles in favor of some nebulous "he'll protect your values" argument, which means nothing.
A Giuliani nomination will split this party wide open, possibly fracturing it beyond repair.
I only regret that I have but one vote to cast; but if I had more, none would be cast for Rudy.
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