The New Flat Earth Society (Doug Patton)

GOPUSA ^ | February 12, 2007 | Doug Patton

[jazusamo]

Al Gore, Ellen Goodman and the rest of the Kool-Aid drinking GWC are truly the new Flat Earth Society.

LOL...Patton tells it like it is.

[Eagles6]

Anyone with a spare hour and a reputable high school earth science book can put "global warming" in the dustbin of history.

[Graybeard58]

Ellen Goodman weighed in with her arrogant ignorant opinion

[lostlakehiker]

Just because Ellen Goodman says that Global Warming is a Republican Plot, and we all know that's nonsense, doesn't mean that global warming itself is nonsense.

It just means that Goodman is talking nonsense.

There are real reasons to think that global warming is real. For instance, the Arctic icecap is shrinking. Glaciers around the world are in retreat. Just take a look at photos from glacier national park from 50 or 100 years ago, and compare to today.

How much of a threat this is, we can argue. But to sit there and insist that glacier national park hasn't changed, that the snow and ice is still there as much as ever, well, that's just flat wrong. It IS warmer now than it used to be, and human fossil fuel use is very probably one of the big reasons why.

[feedback doctor]

This explain the reason the ice coverage in Antarctica is increasing?

[Grizzled Bear]

"23 percent of college-educated Republicans believe the warming is due to humans, while 75 percent of college-educated Democrats believe it."
________________________________________________________

This tells me that 23 percent of college-educated Republicans are idiots.

What about the 75 percent of college-educated Democrats?

Don't get me started...

[Grizzled Bear]

I would really like you to respond to these questions;

How was it possible to grow grapes in Newfoundland and grain in Greenland 1000 years ago when the areas are under perma frost today?

Why are the icecaps of Mars shrinking?

Why are the temperatures of all the planets in our solar system getting warmer?

How is the terrestrial (Earth) bound human burning of fossil fuels able to effect the "weather" on other planets?

I am eagerly awaiting your response.

[boop]

Uh, NY is under eight feet of snow. I'm sure that the massive cooling is due to global warming.

[Wiseghy]

Maybe so.

However, the chain of reasoning that leads us to embrace drastic, economy crushing controls and cut backs, while China and the third world pump ever larger quantities of pollution into the air is what concerns me.

Fortunately, a consensus on US energy independence is emerging.

However, environmental reasoning has an oddly religious quality to it; I just can't believe that buying "indulgences" in the form of carbon credits will ever deliver the planet from anything. Already, I'm reading about the third world plowing under rain forest at an unprecedented rate to plant corn for ethanol. There is just no escaping from the priests of environmentalism.

[technomage]

I am eagerly awaiting your response.

C'mon Grizzled Bear, your using facts and as we all know, facts mean nothing to those who worship at the alter of man made global warming.

Never mind that glaciers have come and gone for millenia. Never mind that the amount of energy being put out by the sun is the highest it has been in at least 100 years, and possibly much longer. Lets just ignore that last fact, that the largest heat source in the solar system is heating up all the planets. No, we humans are much more powerful than that meager little star called the sun.

[Grizzled Bear]

facts mean nothing to those who worship at the alter of man made global warming
___________________________________________________________

Awwww cmon'

It's so much fun to expose them to truth and watch em scurry back under the refrigerator.

[facedown]

I am eagerly awaiting your response.

What for? All you'll get is more of this:

Posted by lostlakehiker to gcruse
On News/Activism 01/22/2007 11:06:59 PM CST · 23 of 92

No one with any CLUE is arguing. I have seen glaciers fading away, year by year. A lot of us have. The evidence is unarguable except by fools who love the sound of their own voice arguing.

[jazusamo]

It's so much fun to expose them to truth and watch em scurry back under the refrigerator.

:-)

[BlazingArizona]

... human fossil fuel use is very probably one of the big reasons why.

So who's burning fossil fuel on Mars?

[ancient_geezer]

It IS warmer now than it used to be, and human fossil fuel use is very probably one of the big reasons why.

Warming, naturally perhaps, from anthropogenic CO2, not very likely.

Anthropgenic Global Warming hypothesis requires water vapor content of the atmosphere to increase with a comensurate increase in cloud cover to enhance the effect of CO2 in effecting heating of the the atmosphere and surface.

 

http://www.meteor.iastate.edu/gccourse/model/direct/direct_lecture_new.html

Water-vapor/greenhouse feedback.

Relative humidity is reasonably constant despite variations in absolute humidity. That is, an increase in temperature leads to more evaporation and increase in the absolute amount of water vapor in the air (increase absolute humidity). But since the warmer air has a higher saturation vapor pressure (can hold more water vapor), the relative humidity stays approximately constant. The increased absolute humidity, however, increases absorption of infrared radiation by the atmosphere and hence increases the greenhouse effect. Note that this increased greenhouse effect raises the surface temperature, which further increases evaporation. This feedback mechanism is not self-regulating, so we call it a positive feedback.

Cloudiness / surface-temperature feedback.

As temperature increases, evaporation and absolute humidity both increase leading to more cloudiness. But the increase in clouds leads to increased reflection of solar energy and also leads to more trapping of infrared energy from the surface of the earth. The net effect (which depends on the altitude of the clouds) is thought to lead to a cooling, which makes this a negative feedback process.

as quantified by Ramanathan:

"the direct radiative effects of doubled CO2 can cause a maximum surface warming [at the equator] of about 0.2 K, and hence roughly 90% of the 2.0-2.5 K surface warming obtained by the GCM is caused by atmospheric feedback processes described above.
--- "Increased Atmospheric CO2: Zonal and Seasonal Estimates of the Effect on the Radiation Energy Balance and Surface Temperature"
(V. Ramanathan and M. S. Lian), J. Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 84, p. 4949, 1979.

 

Taking a look at what the water vapor & clouds are actually doing:

http://isccp.giss.nasa.gov/JPEG/zD2ATMOSCLIM/B128B129glbp.anomdevs.jpg

 

 

http://isccp.giss.nasa.gov/zD2BASICS/B8glbp.anomdevs.jpg

 

 

http://isccp.giss.nasa.gov/zD2CLOUDTYPES/B32glbp.anomdevs.jpg

 

 

One might guess that something other than changing CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere is in the driver's seat.

http://www.sciencebits.com/CosmicRaysClimate

Clouds have been observed from space since the beginning of the 1980's. By the mid 1990's, enough cloud data accumulated to provide empirical evidence for a solar/cloud-cover link. Without the satellite data, it hard or probably impossible to get statistically meaningful results because of the large systematic errors plaguing ground based observations. Using the satellite data, Henrik Svensmark of the Danish National Space Center in Copenhagen has shown that cloud cover varies in sync with the variable cosmic ray flux reaching the Earth. Over the relevant time scale, the largest variations arise from the 11-yr solar cycle, and indeed, this cloud cover seemed to follow the cycle and a half of cosmic ray flux modulation. Later, Henrik Svensmark and his colleague Nigel Marsh, have shown that the correlation is primarily with low altitude cloud cover. This can be seen in fig. 3.


Figure 3: The correlation between cosmic ray flux (orange) as measured in Neutron count monitors in low magnetic latitudes, and the low altitude cloud cover (blue) using ISCCP satellite data set, following Marsh & Svensmark, 2003.

[irv]

For instance, the Arctic icecap is shrinking. Glaciers around the world are in retreat.

They can have some of the 6 feet of snow in my front yard.

If I believed global warming, I'd be feeling mighty cheated right now.

[IYellAtMyTV]

"23 percent of college-educated Republicans believe the warming is due to humans, while 75 percent of college-educated Democrats believe it."

Lets assume (for the sake of argument) that lostlakehiker is a college educated Republican, and further assume that these percentages are correct. Does anyone else find it funny that the fourth post (25% at that point) was professing a belief in global warming?!

C'mon lost, you did that on purpose didn't you, fess up...
*chortle, snort*

[Nasty McPhilthy]

[irv]

By the way: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1783234/posts

[dfwgator]

For instance, the Arctic icecap is shrinking. Glaciers around the world are in retreat.

Uhh, not so fast....

Greenland’s Glaciers Take a Breather