Motorists Prove Red-Light Cameras Don't Work

News Net 5 ^ | February 1, 2007

[Balding_Eagle]

Don't bother, a lot of those 98'ers just post and run, knowing they're unable to defend their positions.

[ChildOfThe60s]

The issue here is the reliability and accuracy of these mechanical devices, along with the willingness of law enforcement to issue citations based on not only insufficient evidence, but on insignificant and sometimes non existent evidence. I personally think red light runners ought to be pulled from their cars and beaten by those of us drivers that are endangered. But, and this is a very important but, ticketing people that are not doing anything wrong is not making anyone a bit safer. And when it is so grossly obvious that these drivers are innocent, the so called law enforcement agencies doing it become no better than their 3rd world corrupt counterparts.

We have a right to face our accusers. Who is the accuser here? The fuzzy picture of a license plate, or the person that makes up a plate number for the one he cannot read? If you have kept up with this issue, you know that in DC it is practically an epidemic, and accounts for millions in [illegally confiscated] revenue. It is literally a sick joke that is a crime.

Not only are these practices not protecting us, they are tools for corrupt agencies to steal our money and freedom.

I'm in favor of huge fines for red light runners. But only if they are caught by a person who witnessed it and can be called upon to swear under oath that he did see it. It's pretty damn easy to sit at an intersection and catch red light runners all day long.

[Balding_Eagle]

Well, I'm going to have to eat crow on this one.

[groanup]

You're splitting hairs. I've seen a lot of cars go through reds a lot later than that, in plenty of time for cross traffic to start. Besides, the intersections around here with the cameras are clearly marked with warnings that they are there. I'm all for everything possible to slow people down and make them go through intersections in a safer manner.

Tailgaters, careless cell phone talkers, lane darters, red-light cheaters, speeders, make up appliers, map readers, eaters - hell they all ought to be put in jail for a night. They are a threat to me and my family.

[groanup]

What's a 98er and why are you pinging me?

[Paladin2]

How can timing the lights be illegal?

Please site the statute(s).

[groanup]

I don't disagree with you. Abuse of the law by authorities is one thing. If it were happening here I would raise hell. But it isn't. The camera shots are clear as a bell and include a picture of the stoplight.

[elkfersupper]

Traffic Tickets have always been guilty until proven innocent. Nothing new about that.

These aren't traffic tickets. They're "administrative fees".

That's how the municipalities that have these vile things circumvent due process.

[Brellium]

Those unmaned speed camera came about after constant problems with drivers doing 100+ mph on that same state highway. DPS could never take care of the problem so Scottsdale got tired of it and put cameras on the freeway.

I'd complain but I'm not in the "It's a god given right to do 115 in a 65" group.

[elkfersupper]

These infernal things are pretty new here.

The good news is they're already being paintballed.

Pretty soon, they'll get pushed over or pulled down with chains, then they'll start suffering from a combination of old tires and gasoline.

[Balding_Eagle]

Let me begin by saying I probably have to eat crow on this one, as you are out of the norm.

A 98er is someone who signed up at FR in 1998, as you did. There is a history of those folks, with some exceptions, posting provocative one liners, and then running away.

No one has an obligation to back up anything they post, but I was just warning the other two that they probably weren't going to get the satisfaction of grilling you about your post.

[sgtbono2002]

I ve gotten one of them on my motorcycle. about 2 months after the supposed violation. I made it a point to cover my tag and go thru the camera again with my middle finger raised. Its just a way to rip off the public.

[ArmstedFragg]

It appears NewsChannel5 can't tell the difference between a red light camera and a speed camera. Both the incidents described involve a speed camera.

[Oystir]

The city fathers attempt to justify this by saying, "Well, rear end collisions are safer than T-bones.

Tell that to someone that needs a spinal rod placed, a head injury or worse.

[elkfersupper]

Sometimes it seems that every third vehicle here has some sort of government tag on it. The local newspaper found out that they just throw those away.

Can't have a government entity fining itself or some other government entity.

[HKMk23]

"Timing" involves trying to gague when the light's going to go green so that you do not have to slow down. If you're right, you hit the limit line as the light's changing, if you're wrong, you blow a red light, and possibly cause a wreck. People timing traffic lights base their actions on the color of lights for cross traffic; watching to see the green-to-yellow change, and trying to adjust their speed so that they will cross the limit line as the light for cross traffic goes to red and their own light changes to green.

Success depends upon speed, distance from the intersection, duration of the yellow, lag beteween the appearance of the red light for cross traffic, and the appearance of green for the one doing the timing. Success also depends upon there being NOBODY in the flow of cross traffic who happens to legally enter the intersection late in the yellow and still be on the way out as the cross traffic light goes to red. Any vehicle going through late is at high risk for being t-boned by the person "timing" the light.

I'll have to do more sleuthing to get you a cite from the Vehicle Code.

[Paladin2]

Timing the lights seems to be in the best interests of society in minimizing CO2 emissions (assuming that one believes in that).

As long as you leave a margin so as not to cross the line on a red, I don't see where that can possibly be illegal (though I've been admonished by a Judge for believeing so). It's kinda like thought crimes. Very problemic in my estimation.

[groanup]

Most of the old timers I know will back up anything they post. Sorry if you've run into some weenies.

[cva66snipe]

I have absolutely no problem with a uniformed policeman doing traffic stops. I have no problem with Officer Whoever setting up at an intersection with a camera and snapping a picture then at that point making a traffic stop to issue me a citation if I broke the law. But no I do not support having an unmanned camera snapping pictures and citations being issues on that basis. It is called the right to face ones accuser an actual eye witness.

For the record in my 34 years driving I have not once challenged a traffic ticket issued me by an officer {about 5 or so total} nor have I ever even tried to talk my way out of such. I mail in the fine and move on. Live Officers doing their job? Yes I support them issuing needed traffic tickets to dangerous drivers. Unmanned traffic cameras and no witness than a note in the mail? No person should be subject to such.

[jwparkerjr]

re: Motorists Prove Red-Light Cameras Don't

This article has virtually nothing to do with red-light cameras. It's about one man's fight over a speeding ticket.

It's one thing to use cameras to enforce red light violations, but quite another to use them to catch speeders. In the red light situation it's pretty obvious what color the light is when the pictures snapped and where the car in relation to the intersection. But I know of know way to judge speed with the use of a single picture, regardless of how much you know about distances and other cars in the photo.

The speeder catcher camera is used along with a timing device. The device clocks the speed and if it's over the limit then a picture is taken. The camera itself is not measuring speed.

If they are going to go after those who run red lights I would rather be caught by a camera than a cop. If a cop says I ran the red light it's his word against mine. The camera is much more objective. And I don't have to put up with a surly camera. Some officers can be pretty unpleasant when issuing a citation and I would just as soon be spared that experience!

Anyway, my main complaint is that the headline and the article are about different things.