Are the Right People Becoming Teachers? ( Teachers are NOT Professionals)

EdNews.org ^ | January 9,2007 | Martin Haberman

[wintertime]

(snip)

1. The practitioners know and can do things the public in general cannot do. They have a specialized body of knowledge.

2. The specialized body of knowledge practitioners have takes an extended period of time to learn.

3. The educators who prepare the practitioners are experts who agree upon the specialized body of knowledge practitioners must have.

4. Admission to a professional training program is highly selective.( snip).

6. Only members of the profession set the standards for licensure and certification.

7. The primary responsibility and loyalty of a professional is to serve the client and not simply the institution or governmental agency in which the practitioner may be employed.

8. Neither the public at large nor an employing institution may control the way in which professionals relate to their clients, or the treatments, methods or procedures they use.

9. Neither the public at large nor an employing institution may set the purpose, goals or objectives for the practitioner’s practice with clients.

10. The public at large does not decide how to evaluate professionals.

11. Only members of the profession can determine malpractice and dismiss or disbar practitioners.

12. Professionals determine the cost of their services.

19. Professionals are trained to serve clients with problems. By definition “professionals” do not seek to perform services to clients without problems.

21. Professionals share a code of ethics to which they commit and adhere. They cannot be directed to perform or not perform services for clients which conflict with their professional code.

The case that teaching does not meet any of these twenty one criteria can be readily made.

[wintertime]

Well, how about making every dollar of private school tuition or homeschool curriculumn tax deductable?

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Isn't this the definition of tax credit? A dolar for dolar deduction is a tax credit.

[wintertime]

Well, how about making every dollar of private school tuition or homeschool curriculumn tax deductable?

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Isn't this the definition of tax credit? A dollar for dollar deduction is a tax credit.

[SoftballMominVA]

I wouldn't know what the NEA debate tactic is for vouchers as I am not a member of the NEA.

What I posted were not arguments for or against, but my private thoughts about it. I find it helpful to hear the opinions of others I respect to balance out what I read.

However, I know that you are not for vouchers either, so I'm not sure what your problem is with me.

[wintertime]

It's a thought. Is there a national organization that is looking into voucher/tax credits that one could contact for information?

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Yes, people other than the parent could sponsor a child, or children, and then get a tax credit. Individuals could contribute to private scholarship fund awarding vouchers to the poor.

A business could also sponsor a child or children, or contribute to a private scholarship fund awarding private vouchers to the poor to attend private schools.

In all cases, there would be a dollar for dollar tax deduction ( tax credit).

I recommend the Milton and Rose Friedman Foundation for more information on tax credits. ( Easily found with Google)

[wintertime]

She is a minor and she is off-limits to you.

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You used her as an example on a PUBLIC forum.

I am merely repeating what you stated she said. How on earth could this possibly be an attack on your daughter? It is a repeat of YOUR comments about her.

If you don't want your comments about your daughter repeated by me, (or any other poster with whom you have a philosophical disagreement), then it is best that you not post her supposed statements on a PUBLIC forum for the entire world to see, and to which the entire world will have access.

The problem here ( I am speculating) is that YOU are embarrassed by what you posted. You stated that your daughter has never seen bullying at her school. Well,,,really? I believe that it is highly unlikely that she said this, since bullying, both overt and under the radar, is hard to totally eliminate from institutional schooling. I believe that others would find it very unlikely for her to have said this as well.

Are you mistaken? Did your daughter really mean that she never witnessed bullying in all her years of schooling?

By the way, I am sending a copy of this to the manager.

[JenB]

I was under the impression that the poster was more worried about vouchers or refunds - getting money back from the government - rather than credits - never giving the money over in the first place.

[Principled]

I think most want to "fix it" - but some think that taking government out of education would be eliminating education. I don't think so. I think capitalism would allow education to flourish .

[Zack Nguyen]

I think that ISD's should be able to hire teachers without education degrees - if they have long experience in a certain field and can successfully communicate that knowledge in an age-appropriate way, they should be hired. It would break the near-total monopoly that university Ed departments have on the teaching profession.

[SoftballMominVA]

You stated that your daughter has never seen bullying at her school. Well,,,really? I believe that it is highly unlikely that she said this, since bullying, both overt and under the radar, is hard to totally eliminate from institutional schooling. I believe that others would find it very unlikely for her to have said this as well.By the way, I am sending a copy of this to the manager.

So you think she is lying to me? You think I am lying about her? What kind of game are you playing?

I was very clear that you were not to use my daughter in your posts. You may not imply or insinuate what her experiences have been. You do not know and it is arrogance of the highest order to suppose what they have been. It is wrong to do make these assumptions.

I have done what I said I would do in the event you used her as political fodder for your own posts.

[durasell]

I think capitalism would allow education to flourish .






Capitalism would break education up in terms of quality/cost. You'd have Wal-Mart type education to Tiffany education. To a very large degree we already have this -- educational quality in affluent areas is far superior to poor or middleclass areas. In the buy/sell, you get what you pay for world of capitalism, the best teachers would cost the most.

[wintertime]

Copy of letter to the Manger:

What constitutes abuse? I would like to know, because I absolutely wish to conform to the standards of this excellent forum. I wish to avoid all behavior that would result in being banned.

I am writing because Softballmom is threatening me with the "abuse button". (Whatever that could be? )

Some months ago, Softballmom posted that her daughter stated she had never seen bullying in her schools. I find that highly unlikely, and occasionally ( perhaps 3 or 4 times in several months) mentioned that her daughter stated this.

Softballmom has demanded that I refrain from ALL mention of her daughter. Is it in her right to do this?

If Softballmom can demand that I not mention her daughter, then I will not.

If Softballmom is only being overly sensitive, then I will ignore her emotional manipulation, and her threats of hitting the "abuse button".

Respectfully,

Wintertime

[wintertime]

So you think she is lying to me?

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I think you must have misunderstood, since bullying ( both under the radar and overt) is hard to completely eliminate from institutional schools.

[wintertime]

but some think that taking government out of education would be eliminating education

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Some teachers are stupid, some greedy, and some evil.

Those that think taking government out of eduction would eliminate education fall into the stupid category.

[Admin Moderator]

How about you both drop it? Cool off. Go find another thread.

[wintertime]

rather than credits - never giving the money over in the first place.

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This is certainly the best approach.

Eventually, EVERYONE should be given a great BIG tax CUT.

All government manipulation of education, and all government involvement in K-12 education should be broken off completely. Then parents should simply pay for their own child's tuition, and private charity would care for the education of the poor.

What is needed is complete separation of SCHOOL and state, but tax credits and vouchers can ease the transition to complete privatization without government interference.

[Principled]

In the buy/sell, you get what you pay for world of capitalism, the best teachers would cost the most.

Isn't this the way it should be?

Implied in your statement is that the worst teachers would be paid the least (or be gone). Isn't that the way it should be too?

[Gabz]

But, this thread is one big teacher bash fest.

My dear friend - get used to it. It is a very common situation on threads about public schools, public school teachers, and parents who send their children to public schools.

[durasell]

Implied in your statement is that the worst teachers would be paid the least (or be gone). Isn't that the way it should be too?





Should be? I don't know. It would have market efficiency, but probably not educational efficiency. Kids whose parents couldn't afford the $25,000 a year for a good school would probably get short changed. Talent may not be spotted at the lower end, so you'd get some inefficiencies (waste) of potential.

The talent pool of teachers -- along with all the equipment -- would get divided up pretty quick. The best teachers flowing to the highest paying jobs and the worst teachers floating to the bottom.

[Gabz]

Good grief woman, are you insane???????

SoftballMominVA has repeatedly asked you to leave her daughter out of discussions, yet you refuse to do so and insist on bringing the child up for absolutely NO reason.

For someone of such self-proclaimed intelligence, I would think you would understand such a simple request.

[perseid 67]

I wonder how the old Catholic Nuns ,many of whom had no college at all, were able to do such a good job educating their economically disadvantaged students.