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Revealed: how eBay sellers fix auctions
Times Online UK ^ | Jan.28, 2007

Posted on 01/28/2007 6:38:39 AM PST by COUNTrecount

CUSTOMERS of the internet auction site eBay are being defrauded by unscrupulous dealers who secretly bid up the price of items on sale to boost profits. An investigation by The Sunday Times has indicated that the practice of artificially driving up prices — known as shill bidding — is widespread across the site.

Last week one of the UK’s biggest eBay sellers admitted in a taped conversation with an undercover reporter that he was prepared to use business associates to bid on his goods for him.

Our inquiries found evidence that a number of businesses — ranging from overseas property agencies to car dealerships — have placed bids on their own items using fake identities.

The cases raise questions about whether eBay, the world’s biggest auction site, is doing enough to protect consumers.

Shill bidding is against eBay rules and is illegal under the 2006 Fraud Act. However, the resulting higher prices on the site boost the value of eBay’s share of the sales.

Last November eBay changed its rules to conceal bidders’ identity — making it even more difficult for customers to see whether sellers are bidding on their own lots. Since its launch seven years ago, eBay’s UK website has attracted more than 15m customers. It sells more than 10m items at any given time.

One of the beneficiaries of the boom is Eftis Paraskevaides, a former gynaecologist, from Cambridgeshire. He has become a “Titanium PowerSeller” — one of eBay’s handful of top earners — selling more than £1.4m worth of antiquities a year on the site.

In a conversation with an undercover reporter last week, Paraskevaides claimed shill bidding was commonplace on eBay.

When the reporter asked whether he arranged for associates to bid on his own items, he replied: “Well, if I put something really expensive (up for sale) and I was concerned that it was going for nothing, I would phone a friend of mine, even a client of mine who buys from me, and say: For Christ’s sake, I sell you 100 quids’ worth of items a week . . . just put two grand on it, will you?” The reporter was posing as a seller of valuable antiquities. He inquired whether Paraskevaides could sell them on eBay and guarantee a minimum price.

He replied: “Leave it to me (laughs). Don’t call it shill bidding. Then I won’t be accused of shill bidding. Yes. I mean — I’ve got people.

“I’ve got some of my big clients who buy big items off me, I look after them. So I can get on the phone to America and say: Mr XXXX . . . you’re a multi- millionaire. You buy a hundred grand’s worth off me a year. Do me a favour would you. Just put — yeah. Exactly.”

He claimed eBay would never follow up a complaint against him for shill bidding because he generated about £15,000 a month in commission for the company. “Are they going to ban somebody who’s making them the best part of 15 grand a month? No,” he said.

After being told that he had been talking to an undercover reporter, Paraskevaides denied that he had ever shill bidded on eBay and claimed he was talking about clients who sometimes bid on expensive items if they wished to protect the price.

However The Sunday Times discovered businesses that have been bidding on their own items. One leading dealer from London admitted last week that that he had shill bidded in the past.

A spokesman for eBay said he expected that the company would now launch an investigation into Paraskevaides. Anyone caught shill bidding risks a permanent ban.

The spokesman added: “The change to the way bidder IDs are shown has already resulted in a safer environment for users.”


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: auctioneer; bidding; charges; ebay; handling; iceberg; marketplatform; shill; shillbidding; shipping
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To: bvw

"Obviously, it seems to me, there are bots running against certain types of eBay auctions sending out phishing (fake) "Second Chance Offers". I suspect that is what you are getting."

As I recall, I have gotten three "second chance" offers. As I said, I decline them as a matter of principle. However, one was entirely legitimate. There is a funny story about that one. I bid on a new Gravely brush cutter and I was really lusting after it. I even drove two hundred miles to the dealership to see it before I bid. I tried to buy it outright but the dealer wouldn't end his auction although I was willing and able to take it back home with me. Well to make a long story short, I bid on it three or four times below my maximum and some guy nearby kept bidding up the price to the point I threw in the towel. Well, he got it all right after having some second thoughts. That's when my "second chance" offer came. But the buyer completed the purchase and he had it delivered to his home with his six car garage and his ample tool collection. Two months later the buyer put it back on ebay with only two hours on it and took at $1,800 bath. I had a good horse laugh out of that but the seller was legitimate. I later purchased a perfectly good used one from the same dealer and he's a straight arrow. But to be sure most of the second chance offers are scams.



101 posted on 01/28/2007 9:06:07 AM PST by RichardW
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To: TET1968

We used to go to an auction house in a small town in the next county. It was a pleasant way to spend Sat. evening and for little outlay we practically furnished our home with very nice things. Anyway we went one Sat evening and they were CLOSED. Seems the auctioneer wasn't paying the people whose items he was selling. He owed mega bucks to them. He was arrested and his license revoked.


102 posted on 01/28/2007 9:08:32 AM PST by kalee (No burka for me....EVER!)
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To: COUNTrecount

OK, so most of the stuff I bid on is .99 cents to start with.
And often I recognize the names of friends that I'm bidding against. For me, Ebay is a place where I can get stuff for my students and classes that are harder to get elsewhere.

Or finish my china pattern.

Or buy saltwater critters cheaper than at the store.

Or get a sari to make bedroom curtains for $90 bucks less than I paid for the one shipped from India.

Or.....OK, so I didn't need the mini fridge, but it was so CUTE!

Anyhow, the only time I've noticed what could have been 'shill' bidding was when no one bid on something, then when I did, someone else jumped in and pushed up the price.

Fine, I quit at that point.

Otherwise, most of my bidding has been against fellow hobbyists.


103 posted on 01/28/2007 9:10:28 AM PST by najida (Campers laugh at clowns behind closed doors.)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum
I was very good at putting a bid in the last minute, sometimes last half minute. Philosophy is bidding early just runs the price up.

If you are really careful, you can place your bid with less than 5 seconds to go. I've done that numerous times, and most of the time I would win the bid.
104 posted on 01/28/2007 9:14:52 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (Every time a jihadist dies, an angel gets its wings.)
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To: COUNTrecount

I'd also be wary of "Tires at Blowout Prices"


105 posted on 01/28/2007 9:20:22 AM PST by P.O.E.
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To: Mygirlsmom

My wife sells tupperware on E-Bay. She has a stock of it that has never been out of packages that have been stored very well for fifteen years. Sometimes it goes for a steal and sometimes she gets a real hefty profit.

Once we bought ten place settings and many other pieces of silver for a fraction of what it would normally go for.

So far we have been lucky. But we are careful.


106 posted on 01/28/2007 9:23:53 AM PST by 2ndClassCitizen
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To: kalee
You post reminded about a small-time local auction house that I used to attend. They specialized in liquidating junk from self-storage yards (when people didn't pay their storage fees). I would go ever so often just to watch the "action". I did buy some tools there - which I continue to use to this day.


Now that was some low-rent fun!
107 posted on 01/28/2007 9:24:40 AM PST by rockrr (Never argue with a man who buys ammo in bulk...)
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To: Veggie Todd

A low-ball bid on eBay is like a self-ping on FR. It flags it for your watch list.


108 posted on 01/28/2007 9:25:18 AM PST by ReignOfError
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To: Osage Orange

"I sell items on eBAY...and offer "Second Chance" to next highest bidders on occasion."

...which is against eBay rules.


109 posted on 01/28/2007 9:27:09 AM PST by toddlintown (Six bullets and Lennon goes down. Yet not one hit Yoko. Discuss.)
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To: P.O.E.
"I'd also be wary of "Tires at Blowout Prices"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~


110 posted on 01/28/2007 9:28:13 AM PST by Buddy B (MSgt Retired-USAF)
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To: kalee
Re Auctions:

Groups of antique dealers agreeing not to bid against each other, appointing one among themselves to bid for the group and then "equitably" distributing the results of the low bids among themselves.

In follow up mailings that list the lots "sold" at a previous auction.
A. Inflating the hammer price.
B. Listing the item as sold when it was not. Happens a lot !

111 posted on 01/28/2007 9:38:49 AM PST by TET1968 (SI MINOR PLUS EST ERGO NIHIL SUNT OMNIA)
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To: lucky american

My wife and I own a gun/antique shop, and we sell and buy on Ebay, and it is a large part of our business. On Ebay we have been selling a lot of old military documents, records, books, and shooting/reloading related items and have been fairly lucky with only a few bad customers and one bad seller out of about 1,600 transactions.

You stated, "When you see that those sellers always have the same bidders that never quite seem to make the winning bids you know there is a shill. Look for these buyers on similar auction items and they aren't interested. You have a shill." This is not necessarily true, as I have had bidders that have repeatedly (more than 20 times) bid on similar items of mine and not won them. Most of this is other dealers trying to "bottomfeed" and get lucky on an item for a great price. It is occassionaly successful and therefore worth their effort.

That said, there are lots of lowlifes out there using shill bidders. However, they are in the minority, and we have had many GREAT experiences and made many good contacts and even a few friends. We have shipped items all over the world and have enjoyed ourselves immensely.


112 posted on 01/28/2007 9:52:55 AM PST by ExpatGator (Extending logic since 1961.)
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To: lucky american

I'm an avid Ebay buyer. Shilling is not a problem for me because of my personal buying philosophy. The big problem with Ebay are sellers outrageous shipping/handling charges. I just will not bid on their items. Bidding early on an item is mainly to be on board and find if other bidders are using the max bid system. Sniping is a lot of fun. Winning in the last few seconds is exciting. I never bid more than I'm prepared to pay immediately.


113 posted on 01/28/2007 9:56:48 AM PST by hdstmf
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To: Buddy B

See my previous post #112 for some background.

Yes, it is insane that people charge, and even crazier that people pay those shipping costs.

We charge actual shipping + $2 S&H if we have to supply a box, or $1 S&H if we use a USPS box such a a Priority Mail box.

We sell in some very competitive niches and this policy nets us more sales.


114 posted on 01/28/2007 9:58:44 AM PST by ExpatGator (Extending logic since 1961.)
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To: Buddy B

Outrageous shipping/handling charges are the worst things about Ebay buying. I automatically ignore sellers who use S/H to pad their profit.


115 posted on 01/28/2007 10:02:47 AM PST by hdstmf
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To: Mygirlsmom

Thanks for being an honest seller. Reasonable handling charges are not an issue for me. Shipping charges are pretty well set. A $5 item with $10 s/h is generally a scam.


116 posted on 01/28/2007 10:09:15 AM PST by hdstmf
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To: najida

Aye, you USED to see the handles or names of the other bidders. As of last week, no more. It's all "Bidder 1", "Bidder 2", etc. You can only make an informed guess as to who they are by looking at the limited information the new eBay bidding history provides.


117 posted on 01/28/2007 10:15:47 AM PST by bvw
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To: cincinnati65

Always evaluate the TOTAL cost when bidding, and beware anyone who doesn't post a shipping price on the item.

Absolutely right! I might as well buy locally if the item is available for the same TOTAL price as on Ebay.


118 posted on 01/28/2007 10:18:03 AM PST by hdstmf
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To: Mygirlsmom

I really work for "peanuts".

Yeah, but at least you get the peanuts.


119 posted on 01/28/2007 10:24:11 AM PST by hdstmf
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To: bvw
Cha-ching! I'm now the mark and hit up for my maximum bid.

Very nice job in figuring that out. The only question I have is that if you were willing to pay $745 for the laptop why didn't you just follow thru?

120 posted on 01/28/2007 10:24:59 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (Celebrate Monocacy!)
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