Posted on 01/21/2007 6:41:36 AM PST by Uncledave
January 20, 2007 Is the Sun finally rising on Solar Power? An Interview with Rob Styler of Citizenre (Press Release from Affordable Photovoltaics LLC)
In the past, "going green" usually implied sacrifice. You get to feel good about saving the planet but most "green" products are more expensive than their "dirty" counterparts. With Citizenre, going green can actually save you money. In 1931, Thomas Edison had a conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone. He said, "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." We have waited 76 years, but an innovative company may have finally found a solution.
The sun supplies enough energy to earth in one hour to supply all of our energy needs for an entire year. But currently solar power produces less than 1/2 of 1% of our residential energy needs. Why?
In the past, solar power has been too expensive and too complicated. To switch to solar, people had to invest their children's college fund or sell their second car. The average consumer pays $40,000 to convert their home to solar-plus you are responsible for the installation, maintaining the equipment, getting permits-who has the time (or the money)?
A company called Citizenre has a bold plan to remove all of the traditional barriers to solar power. They offer: No system purchase. No installation cost. No maintenance. No permit hassles. No performance worries. No rate increases. No way!?
When we first heard about this, we were so intrigued that we contacted the company. It seemed almost too good to be true. Like most innovations, their model is so simple it makes you wonder why no one thought of it before.
You simply pay Citizenre the same rate per kilowatt for power that you used to pay your utility company-but it gets even better. Citizenre will guarantee that your rate per kilowatt will not go up for 25 years. With ever increasing electricity rates, this gives consumers peace of mind and can add up to significant savings. They even have a solar calculator on their website that shows exactly how much you will save over 1, 5, and 25 years. I saved over $13,000 and by using clean energy, it was the equivalent of taking 24 cars off the road or planting 400 trees. Nice.
In the past, "going green" usually implied sacrifice. You get to feel good about saving the planet but most "green" products are more expensive than their "dirty" counterparts. With Citizenre, going green can actually save you money.
This is all made possible by net metering laws that require the utility companies to allow renewable energy to flow into the grid and then allow the consumer to pull that same amount of energy off of the grid at no cost to the consumer. Basically the grid becomes a huge battery. The meter spins backwards during the day when the sun is shining and forwards at night when the consumer pulls that power back off the grid.
These laws were passed because residential energy production was the number one cause of pollution in the US last year, but there are still 9 states that have not joined the party. If you live in Alaska, Tennessee, South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, or South Dakota, the Citizenre Solution is not an option for you yet.
We were still a little skeptical, so we asked Rob Styler, the president of their marketing division, some hard questions.
Q. How can Citizenre afford to install this complete solar system with no upfront cost to the consumer?
A. Because we handle everything ourselves from the solar grade silicon to the final installation, we create savings at each stage of the production. Plus we are building the largest plant for solar power in the world. When you combine our vertical integration with our economies of scale, we are able to produce the final product at half the cost of our competitors.
Q. This sounds like Citizenre required a large amount of money to make all this happen?
A. $650 million.
Q. Now I know why no one did this before you guys. So the customer does not have to give any money to have this complete solar system installed on their house?
A. We require a security deposit, typically only $500, at the time of installation. They get this deposit back, with interest, at the end of the contract. If they don't pay their bill and walk away from the contract, they lose their deposit and we come take the system off their roof. They are also required to pay a monthly rental for the solar energy system.
Q. And how is that rent calculated?
A. By the amount of energy that the system produces.
Q. But they are paying the same rate they were paying before, right?
A. Often it is actually less. We base our rates on the yearly average for their utility. So we have to base our rates on the prior year. Since rates tend to go up each year, many customers will save money on their first bill, and this will only increase as the years pass. We provide a calculator on our website that will tell specifically what they will save with their particular utility and their monthly usage. Many customers save over $10,000 just by switching to the sun. Our whole mission is to help people join the solution and stop being part of the problem.
Q. I like that. How long of a contract do they have to sign?
A. One year, five years, or 25 years. Over 70% of our customers sign the 25-year contract because that locks in their rate for the entire term of the contract. If they sign a shorter contract, their rate is recalculated according to current energy rates at the end of their term.
Q. What happens if I sign a 25-year contract and I want to sell my house in 10 years?
A. You have three options. First, you can ask us to move the system to your new house. We do that one time for free. Second, you can transfer the contract to the new owner. This can potentially add value to your house because if energy rates keep going up like they are and they are 60% higher in 10 years, then your buyer would get a 60% decrease on their energy bill because of your foresight. The final option is that you can contact us, tell us that you just want to end the contract and we will remove the unit. With this third option you do lose your security deposit.
Q. So is my security deposit the most I can lose?
A. Obviously if you don't pay your bill there will be late fees or if one of our franchisees comes out to your house to remove the unit and you greet him with a shot gun and pit bull, we will have to take legal steps to recover our property. But if the customer is cooperative they should have no worries.
Q. Say I want a system on my house. How does it work? What is the process?
A. One of our Independent Ecopreneurs will help you each step of the way. There are some simple questions to answer about your amount of shade, the direction of your roofline, etc. After you sign the contract, a solar engineer will come to the house to design your system.
Q. What if I don't like the design? Am I still obligated to the contract?
A. No. You can back out of the contract with no penalty. You don't even pay the deposit until after you approve the design.
Q. Okay. I like the design. I want the system. What's next?
A. The installation usually takes about half a day. The permit process can take as much as 90 days depending on how cooperative the local utility is, but we handle everything. All you do is sit back and feel good knowing you are using clean energy to power your home.
Q. What happens if something breaks or goes wrong?
A. We have a complete worry free performance guarantee. If the unit ever stops working, one of our franchisees will rush out to fix it for free. The customer has no rental charges until the system is working again so we are motivated to get it fixed fast.
Q. What if my kid hits a baseball through one of the panels?
A. It is just like renting a car or a TV. You are responsible for returning it in good condition. We recommend that customers contact their homeowners insurance to double check that the unit will be covered under their policy. Usually there is not a problem.
Q. Wouldn't I save money in the long run if I just bought the system?
A. Actually, no. Renting can save you a significant amount of money, and it protects you from a large investment risk. We can help the consumer evaluate their options so they can make a solid decision. Our goal is to have solar power producing 25% of our residential energy supply in the year 2025. To make that happen, we removed every barrier we could find to solar entry. We make solar simple.
Q. I understand that your manufacturing plant is not completed yet, is that right?
A. Correct. The first systems will be ready to install in September of 2007.
Q. So why would someone sign up now?
A. First because they lock in their rate as soon as they sign up. Second, they get in line so they can get their system sooner once the plant is producing. Third, it also helps us show the market how many people will go green if we provide an offer that makes sense on every level, including economically. To quote Ghandi, "Be the change that you want to see in the world."
Q. So how does someone sign up?
A. They just go to http://www.affordablephotovoltaics.com and they can sign up for free right now.
What is the cost per watt for solar panels?
Please read the article again - it repeatedly mentions a rent payment on the equipment, aside from the KWH charge.
I live in east central Wisconsin, my electrical utility is
WE Energies.
You said -- "Interesting concept. Color me skeptical but I wish em' luck."
My daughter in New Mexico had to go solar; there were no "poles" going that far out in the woods. They would have had to pay for the electrical company to install miles of it (prohibitive). So, they're all solar now.
Regards,
Star Traveler
Here is their website.
http://renu.citizenre.com/index.php?p=svc_overview
It answers more questions.
what other property rights do you want to do away with?
This plan is too good to be true. In exchange for not having to put up the upfront cost, you are giving all of the cost savings to this company instead of capturing them yourself. Right now, electricity prices are at a relative high. You are going to lock in that price for the next 25 years. Meanhwile, as solar comes down in price, you are stuck, and you don't get to benefit.
Ah ha! I knew there had to be a catch!
I don*t think we*ll bother checking into this further.
Thank you:-)
Don't forget that before that supposed statement, that Edison had put his 'money' on supplying DC power to America, with a power plant every few blocks in metro areas.
I'm waiting for Tesla's broadcast power from the Earth's magnetic field.
Thanks the explanation. I knew there had to be a catch somewhere:-)
We didn*t build the house and to tell the truth it was built strictly for efficiency and definitely not for looks, but the longer we*re here the better we like it.
All those south windows let the sun shine in on a room with a brick floor. The room is 14*x42* and it sometimes gets so hot in here in the middle of the winter that we have to open an upstairs window to let out the heat.
"If you live in Alaska, Tennessee, South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, or South Dakota, the Citizenre Solution is not an option for you yet. "
Since I have about 2 feet on snow on my roof right now, it isn't an option, period. Power generation in Alaska is a funny thing, wide open spaces, very few people.
Oh well, my RV is solar powered. Since it is only used i the summer, that seems to work out for the best.
There were genuine friendships among Ford, Edison and Firestone. They went on annual "Nature Trips", and it would be surprising if something along these lines didn't come up.
Has sort of a PC sound today, but would have been a rather natural subject to arise between Edison and Ford.
The hidden cost in this solar rental concept is that it would "strand" the local utility or muncipal power company's assets and thus regulators would eventually have to step in and assess a "transition charge" to pay off the remaining mortgages (bonds) on existing conventional power plants, transmission lines, and distribution lines. That would likely render the concept unprofitable to homeowners. There aint no such thing as a free solar lunch.
This is interesting, too: http://www.marathonengine.com/cogeneration.html and http://www.climate-energy.com/
You might find the Grove Park Inn in Ashville, NC an interesting place to visit sometime.
Bump
Update on the "Citizenre" aka Affordable Photovoltaics solar panel rental scheme: A very skeptical article here from a guy in the solar biz asks a lot of questions and gets precious few answers from the company.
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=47419
Having to "plug in" the vehicle just moves the origin of the pollution in creating the power to another location and still removes significant money from your pocket. I just traded in my 2003 Escape 4x4 with 3.0L V6 for a 2008 Mercury Mariner Hybrid. We purchased the 2003 used with 20,000 miles for $23,000. We traded it with 73,000 miles. The dealer gave us $13,000.
Thus far the Mariner has performed nicely. It drops into electric mode when the speed drops below 25 MPH. It kicks the engine on when exceeding 20 MPH and continuing to accelerate. Once we turn off the local arterial at 35 MPH and switch to our local street at 20 MPH, the Mariner goes into "stealth" mode. All electric and essentially silent. On a "road trip" to Idaho Falls on Thursday with freeway speeds of 75 MPH, it held almost 29 MPH. On the return trips (mostly downhill), the mileage was almost 31 MPG. That's representative of our common "road trips". Local driving is usually a 5 mile round trip that requires traversal of the 35 MPH Yellowstone Avenue on the path. Not much electric time. April 20th will mark opening day at Yellowstone National Park. It will be interesting to see how it performs inside the park. I'm expecting those extended waits for crossing buffalo herds to be more economical.
I've been in my new home in Idaho for 6 1/2 years now. My ham radio antennas are still packed. I can't get to the roof easily. The lowest edge is almost 32 ft above ground level. A solar cell array up there would be covered with snow from November to February and inaccessible for purposes of clearing the snow. My "fallback" is 10 cords of wood stacked on the basketball court.
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