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That is exactly the defeatism that I was talking about. You just gave aid and comfort to the enemy by saying the War on Terror is lost.

Just so I have this straight. Any dissent on foreign policy then is defeatist? Or is it just specific dissent you disagree with? The President has tried, ridiculously I might add, to do that. Should this be limited to just removing speech that you disagree with from the public arena or should we just toss the whole lot in jail?

As to the statement, one can't say the WOS(some seeing as we have 'allies' in this that have or currently support some forms of terrorism)T is lost or won. Considering that the WOST is dependent upon the party that happens to be in power (one party may see 'terror' in nation states different from the other party), the WOST could continue endlessly throughout time. We'll be at war for centuries!! I suppose that fact this could never end deserves a 'hoo-rah'?

Of course as a realist, a patriot, and a sometime historian, one also has to accept the principle that no nation will exist at the top perpetually, no matter what principles it was established upon

There are opinions and views that do matter other than standard Republican talking points. I'm not saying the Democrats have them or not. I don't know that they do. But closing your eyes and wishing for something to happen that very well may not happen isn't the wisest foreign policy either. I don't honestly believe that any form of representative government can last in certain areas of the Middle East. This is because it has been tried at different points and failed. Just because 'we' did it doesn't mean that it will last. Perhaps the best thing to do is to establish another somewhat secular strong man in Iraq, turn our heads again when he violates human rights, and leave it at that. Then again maybe it isn't. But Iraq is heading for rough times ahead. And I seriously don't know if sending 20,000 troops back there to return to previous levels is the best solution.

Now label me a defeatist without addressing the concerns and be done with it. About the only thing I've come to expect from 'conservatives' these days is 'well the President said' anyway...

I think jveritas is limiting his remarks to the folks who only complain and say we need to get out because all is lost. Their focal point is that everything sucks and we have lost so let's give up (they just offer negativity).

That is quite a bit different from: I see 'x' as a problem and believe that we need to do 'y' to overcome it. That is, constructive criticism.

That's my take. Hopefully jveritas will be able to answer your question on his/her own.