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Fincher Guilty In Machine Gun Case
The Morning News ^ | 01-12-2007 | Ron Wood

Posted on 01/12/2007 2:09:53 PM PST by Wasichu

Fincher Guilty In Machine Gun Case Friday, January 12, 2007 3:37 PM CST

It took a jury just under five hours to find Hollis Wayne Fincher guilty of owning illegal machine guns and a sawed-off shotgun.

Closing arguments in federal court in Fayetteville wrapped at mid-morning and the case went to the federal jury about 10:30 a.m. The jury returned its verdict about 3:20 p.m.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; constitution; fincher; guns; militia; miscarriage; nojustice; travesty
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To: tomcorn
What was the business with the sawed off shotgun?...That is a weapon for armed robbery not defense.

How did you decide that? Size? I guess all handguns are for armed robbery not defense. What a gun is use for is decided by the intent in the mind of the possessor. Guns don't have intent guns fire projectiles and will do so for any purpose the one who has it chooses.

61 posted on 01/12/2007 11:55:20 PM PST by TigersEye (If you don't understand the 2nd Amendment then you don't understand America.)
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To: tomcorn

A friend of mine carried a sawed off shotgun as a Marine in Vietnam. I have seen pictures of soldiers in Iraq with sawed off shotguns. These days they are outfitted with folding stocks, lights and other tactical goodies but they are still sawed off shotguns.


62 posted on 01/12/2007 11:57:36 PM PST by TigersEye (If you don't understand the 2nd Amendment then you don't understand America.)
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To: American_Centurion

That's the part that gets me. It seems that if there is a time a person should be able to have "free speech", then that time oughta be when you are defending your good name!

If any evidence is not alowwed to be presented, seems that would be an appealable issue itself.

I am also curious and haven't seen the details about whether he was pro se or not.


63 posted on 01/13/2007 12:09:33 AM PST by djf (Democracy - n, def: The group that gets PAID THE MOST ends up VOTING THE MOST See: TRAGEDY)
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To: TigersEye

Don't think so...Sawed off refers to barrel length not folding stocks. The sawed off shot guns laws are actually minimum barrel length requirements. Typically sawed off weapons are used by gangbangers as robbery weapons and intimidation weapons.


64 posted on 01/13/2007 12:17:26 AM PST by tomcorn
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To: TigersEye

Then it wasn't a military issue weapon. The standard issue SG in Vietnam was the Remington 870 Express, a 12 gauge pump. The modifications weren't length but chokes, duckbills, stocks and camouflage. There were a few Winchester and Stevens but they were 12 gauge pumps too.


65 posted on 01/13/2007 12:27:03 AM PST by tomcorn
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To: djf

That is exactly the point. In his trial he was forbidden to raise constitutional issues because they are appellate court process. He was in a federal district court. NOW he may raise constitutional issues if Fincher decides to appeal his conviction in an appellate court.


66 posted on 01/13/2007 12:33:08 AM PST by tomcorn
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To: tomcorn
Yes, I know what the legal definition is of a legal sawed off shotgun. The barrel on my Mossberg is exactly 1/8th inch longer than the legal minimum. The overall length is about 1/4-1/2 inch longer than the legal minimum. As another FReeper has already informed you that many people have them for home defense. I do.

I don't know if my friend's shotgun in Vietnam was mil issue or not. I know he also carried a revolver that his folks sent him from the states. I believe it was a .357 and probably a S&W but it was years ago that he told me about it so I may have forgotten calibre and make. You are simply wrong about sawed off shotguns not being used by U.S. troops in war. Whether they are standard issue or not is irrelevant. They are legal and are used.

67 posted on 01/13/2007 12:38:46 AM PST by TigersEye (If you don't understand the 2nd Amendment then you don't understand America.)
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To: tomcorn

Well, seems to me that to not be able to say anything in court in your own defense violates basic due process. No matter what the charge.


68 posted on 01/13/2007 12:40:07 AM PST by djf (Democracy - n, def: The group that gets PAID THE MOST ends up VOTING THE MOST See: TRAGEDY)
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To: tomcorn
Typically sawed off weapons are used by gangbangers as robbery weapons and intimidation weapons.

This statement is just ignorant tripe.

69 posted on 01/13/2007 12:40:29 AM PST by TigersEye (If you don't understand the 2nd Amendment then you don't understand America.)
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To: American_Centurion

Given that the jury probably never heard WHY no defense was presented, (due to the judge's ruling probably being rendered with the jury absent,) they probably assumed he had none to offer. when left with that assumption, what else could they conclude?


70 posted on 01/13/2007 12:48:47 AM PST by Not now, Not ever! (The devil made me do it!,.......................................................( well, not really.)
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To: Wasichu

The Gov. Org. found a "judge" who was happy to do their bidding, preventing the defense from putting their intended case, or even mentioning the Constitution, 2nd Amendment, true definition of "Militia", his own states definition of "Militia", Jury Nullification, etc.

IOW, he was railroaded with the help of a compliant "judge".

I have been following the details of this case, it serves to prove that "Fair Trial" in America is now a quaint MYTH!


71 posted on 01/13/2007 12:52:55 AM PST by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: Wasichu

This will be a very interesting read, book mark this one


72 posted on 01/13/2007 12:54:04 AM PST by Dov in Houston (Don't try to confuse me with facts. It's my way or the highway)
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To: Richard-SIA

I remember listening to the tapes between Bill Clinton and Gennifer Flowers. She kept asking him because she knew she was being investigated "What should I say?"

Clinton kept answering "Whatever you do, don't lie, deny".

Odd thing to say, what?

If you "lie", they might be able to prove it. If you "deny", you have somehow shifted or expanded the burden of proof. (In your favor).

It's a subtle difference. But it's the kind of games losers oops I mean lawyers play.

And Clinton, luv him or hate him, was one heck of a lawyer.


73 posted on 01/13/2007 1:02:04 AM PST by djf (Democracy - n, def: The group that gets PAID THE MOST ends up VOTING THE MOST See: TRAGEDY)
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To: American_Centurion

They were explicit and narrow, tailored to ensure a guilty verdict.

The jury was spoon fed a false, dumbed down version of the law's.
There were so many false statements made by the prosecution and upheld by the "judge" that several inditements' of the prosecution and judge should follow, but will not.

One example, the "judge" ruled that our RKBA is a COLLECTIVE right not applicable to individuals!
This despite the Ashcroft DOJ's very clear and public determination that the 2nd. IS in fact an individual right!

Of course now we have Gonzo, who is as anti-RKBA as anyone in the Bush administration can be.


74 posted on 01/13/2007 1:02:21 AM PST by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: Wasichu

" Fincher had the machine guns and they weren’t registered as required by federal law. "

Here is the quote I find applicable-
""No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it. The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and the name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose, since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it."?16th American Jurisprudence 2d, Section 177 late 2nd, section 256:


75 posted on 01/13/2007 1:04:53 AM PST by Richard-SIA ("The natural progress of things is for government to gain ground and for liberty to yield" JEFFERSON)
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To: Richard-SIA
It isn't what a person owns that makes him guilty, it is what a person does.

But this is an ancient concept, totally unfit for controlling a modern society.


As long as folks can get their iPods, who gives a crap??
76 posted on 01/13/2007 1:12:15 AM PST by djf (Democracy - n, def: The group that gets PAID THE MOST ends up VOTING THE MOST See: TRAGEDY)
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To: FreedomCalls

Hadn't read 313 in a while. Good catch. I stand corrected.


77 posted on 01/13/2007 4:51:22 AM PST by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules.)
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To: TigersEye
"People don't need to be members of no steeinking militia to exercise an inalienable right."

True.

But if they insist on second amendment protection, they'd better be members of a well regulated State Militia with officers appointed by the state.

78 posted on 01/13/2007 5:53:56 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: El Gato
"It's also irrelevant to the case, the Right in question belongs to "the People" not to "The Militia"."

Yeah, that's why the U.S. Supreme Court in US v Miller kept making references to "The Militia".

79 posted on 01/13/2007 6:00:47 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: RKV
"That said, the right to keep and bear arms is a right of the people, not a right of the state."

It is a right of the people -- said right being protected by the state. Since the state didn't protect his right to possess a machine gun, he turned to the second amendment for protection. The judge essentially said, "Nice try, but no".

80 posted on 01/13/2007 6:04:05 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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