Critics say Social Security deal would give billions to Mexicans

Houston Chronicle ^ | 1/4/2007 | MICHELLE MITTELSTADT

[markomalley]

WASHINGTON — A confidential 2004 agreement between the United States and Mexico could require Social Security to pay billions of dollars in benefits to Mexicans who paid payroll taxes in this country, according to a senior citizens' group that forced the document's disclosure.

The Social Security Administration insists that the agreement — which has yet to be signed by President Bush and sent to Congress for consideration — would cost the retirement and disability fund a relatively scant $105 million annually for the first five years.

But the TREA Senior Citizens League, an offshoot from a group of retired military personnel, and some members of Congress contend the agreement opens the door to paying benefits to millions of Mexicans who have worked illegally in the United States, as well as their dependents, even if they now reside in Mexico.

[Jedi Master Pikachu]

And credible was used, not reliable.

[markomalley]

And credible was used, not reliable.

Duly noted ;)

[markomalley]

Some of you people obviously don't get the typing-style. While the comment could have been clearer, read the tagline accompanying both it, and this post. Clear things up?

Certainly does...

[Little Ray]

You're missing the real trick here.

Right now now they're paying in.
In the not-too-distant future, however, SS is going to collapse. There won't be anything from which to collect. Most of 'em will lose all they payed in.

[Ben Ficklin]

The article, that you posted and supposedly read, contradicts you. It says the ultimate autority is in Congress' hands.

[stopem]

Well I have taken it all to the next level.
I may be one person but I will not give up till someone takes me seriously.

[markomalley]

It says the ultimate autority is in Congress' hands.

Try reading the article again. Carefully this time.

Post #11 said:

Point being whether you support SS or not we ALL are paying the price for these people to collect. I pray President Bush will NOT give in to the Dems and he will use a veto pen on this abomination!

Last time I checked, the social security administration is part of the executive branch!!! (i.e., this time it IS Bush's fault!)

There is nothing in that article that contradicted anything I said in post #11...

[do the dhue]

ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE FOUGHT

I don't think it will get traction. Senator Cornyn from Texas was on FNC this morning. He said it has to go through Congress first and he does not think it can make it.

[Unicorn]

BTTT

[zerosix]

Let's get to the bottom of this: Illegal Alien sneaks across the border into the U.S. In order to work, needs Soc. Sec. No. etc. and buys some stolen IDs from crook, works for 7 years and returns to Mexico or further south. He/she wants monies from stolen ID (Social Security number) BUT hasn't worked the 40 quarters that Social Security requires for payouts.

As the stolen Social Security number is mine, and I DID work for the 40 quarters, does the Bush Administration, WITH CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL intend to grant this illegal alien who bought my stolen IDs, approval to receive payments based upon MY, and MY EMPLOYER'S TAXES?

[Eric in the Ozarks]

$10 says he signs it on the last possible day.

[Wormwood]

$10 says he signs it on the last possible day.

Sorry, but only a sucker would take you up on that bet. ;-)

[antisocial]

Townhall gets most of its news from CNSNews.com, do you have a more reliable and credible news source then CNSNEWS?
Please let us know what news sources are acceptable to you so that we don't earn your disdain.

[HawaiianGecko]

"I pray President Bush will NOT give in to the Dems and he will use a veto pen on this abomination!

First of all, President Bush's administration wrote this agreement.  There's nothing for him to veto.  It is essentially a foreign policy agreement (a tax treaty), subject to approval by congress. It's not a bill written by congress, subject to a veto pen.

Secondly, Democrats aren't backing this agreement and Republican fighting against it. This is a non-partisan agreement, unless there is a Tom Tancredo party out there somewhere. Then it would be a partisan fight.

The hype surrounding this bill is just that, hype. An American working in England pays payroll taxes to the UK system and not SSA, yet can still retire in his home country of the USA and receive SS benefits as though he worked here all the time.  The reverse is also true. Hence, since there are more Americans working abroad then foreigners working here, we actually benefit from these programs.

Illegal immigrantion are a problem unto itself. We need to fix that problem directly, not screw around with other programs that are tangentially involved.

Something unfair can be found in everything and hyped to the rafters for knee jerk reactions. That's what is happening here and it's easy because the minute one attaches the compound noun "illegal-immigrant" to the debate all reason flies out the window.

A sidebar to this very article says: "The Social Security Administration estimates that it nets more than $600 million a year in payroll taxes under the system, and in 2004 it paid $206 million to about 102,000 foreign beneficiaries."  So the author can honestly state they are balanced in their reporting. But who the heck reads sidebars? 

Facts can be found at:
http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/factsheets/USandMexico.htm
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/ss/totalizationfacts.pdf

Here is a straight forward non hyped article on the subject. http://www.visalaw.com/03jul2/2jul203.html

 

[processing please hold]

I pray President Bush will NOT give in to the Dems and he will use a veto pen

Not give in? It's his plan.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1760916/posts

[Ben Ficklin]

The article plainly says that Bush must submit to Congress.

The article also states that the Senate has already had one vote on this.

[Cold Heat]

This agreement with Fox was not confidential, and was in the news at the time. The pubbies I have seen comment on it recently, seemed to indicate it was some sort of secret.

That's just BS.

As for the agreement, it should not pass Congressional muster unless we can get something very solid in trade from Mexico. It makes no sense to return SS taxes to illegal workers. If and when they become legal, that would be a different ballgame.

[processing please hold]

If it was NOT confidental, how come they had to use the Freedom of Information act to get it? (if we're talking about the same thing. i'm on my first cup of coffee)

[KarlInOhio]

The hype surrounding this bill is just that, hype. An American working in England pays payroll taxes to the UK system and not SSA, yet can still retire in his home country of the USA and receive SS benefits as though he worked here all the time. The reverse is also true. Hence, since there are more Americans working abroad then foreigners working here, we actually benefit from these programs.

There is a huge difference between most of the other countries and Mexico. For Social Security totalization to work with a country three criteria need to be met:

1. The number of participants has to be relatively small.
2. The number of people coming from the other country to the US has to be similar to the number going from the US to the other country.
3. The retirement program and average wage of each country has to be similar so there is no major incentive to prefer one country's plan over another.

An agreement with Mexico fails on all three points. 1. 15-20 million illegals is a huge number. 2. Vastly more Mexicans are working here than Americans in Mexico. 3. Our SS program is skewed to disproportionately pay the poor, while Mexico's provides payments proportionate to what you paid in. Also our payments would be much greater than Mexico's even without that skewing.

Such a treaty is a good idea with the UK, Germany or even (shudder) France because it is mutually beneficial. The benefits are almost all one way in such an agreement with Mexico.

[stopem]

"Hope burns eternal" that he will change his mind. If only we could put the Veto Pen on turbo and have it sign without him:)