Posted on 01/01/2007 4:25:08 PM PST by yochanan
Why do evangelicals support Israel so strongly? Is the American Jews' fear of fundamentalist Christianity based on constitutional principle, or social and cultural snobbery and political partisanship?
A Match Made in Heaven is a funny, readable, book. It is the most entertaining way to struggle with questions such as "Why do evangelicals support Israel so strongly? Is their philo-Semitism just a front for their true purpose to convert Jews? Do the evangelicals, as their opponents charge, really want to use the Jews as cannon fodder at the battle of Armageddon? Or are they simply responding to the biblical commandment to love Israel? Finally, is the American Jews' fear of fundamentalist Christianity based on constitutional principle, or social and cultural snobbery and political partisanship?"
We will discuss these questions this week, and readers, as usual, can send their questions to rosnersdomain@haaretz.co.il.
How do America's Orthodox Jews relate to Zionist Evangelicals?
Joe Feld
Paradoxically, Orthodox Jews have the fewest problems with a Jewish-Evangelical relationship.
For one thing, a lot of Orthodox Jews and Evangelicals share conservative social and political positions. Orthodox Jews, for example, are rarely troubled by church-state separation issues. They send their own kids to parochial schools; they're glad to get government money via faith based programs; many are opposed to abortion, and they tend not to be too concerned about the good opinion of the "international community" - ie, Europeans.
Most Orthodox Jews also have a stronger connection to, and concern about, Israel than the secular or liberal majority. Orthodox Jews are more likely to care about a candidates' position on Israel. As a Democratic activist told me, if Cynthia McKinney ran for President as a Democrat, she'd get fifty percent of the Jewish vote.
Some Orthodox Jews are opposed to any
(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...
People like you are the ones who make Jews run to the arms of your enemies. There is no joy in this occupation, and the result is just horror.
I have known families raised up as Plymouth Bretheren. to a person they are deeply troubled, leading lives of disharmony with the body of Christ. They seem to be under a curse that goes from generation to generation.
Several more things too. We are told when Christ Second Coming as in feet on the earth is to come to the day. It can be counted from the very day Israel signs the agreement with the Antichrist and the tribulation and great tribulation begins. Another is scripture as in the days of Noah when Christ returns people shall be married and given in marriage? During the tribulation? Ah more clues. No the return of Christ for the Church {Bride} and the Second Coming are two distinct different events. Christ calls forth the Bride to the wedding from the sky the Second Trumpet Blast. The First occurred 2000 years ago. The Second being the Father saying Bring forth the Bride. No one knows this time but the Father. Yet more scripture below
1 Corinthians 15: 51-52 51But let me tell you a wonderful secret God has revealed to us. Not all of us will die, but we will all be transformed. 52It will happen in a moment, in the blinking of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, the Christians who have died£ will be raised with transformed bodies. And then we who are living will be transformed so that we will never die. 53For our perishable earthly bodies must be transformed into heavenly bodies that will never die.
This also happened at the First Trumpet Blast. When Christ died graves opened up and the dead arose.
The Last Trumpet has nothing to do with the trumpets mentioned in The Revelation. Revelations and the events mentioned occur after the 24 Elders are seated. In other words judgement of the believers has at that point already occured. They are not on earth. This is in Chapters 4 & 5 before the wrath is poured out on earth. Why? How can we know this? Because they are wearing new garments and gold crowns on their heads and have been seated at their appointed places.
The blast mentioned by Paul is a specific Trumpet blast grounded in the Hebrew Wedding Tradition. One blast the first occurs when the engagement is made for the Bride. The Second or last occurs when the Grooms Father says provision has been made the Groom has finished preparing the home and the Father approves. Only the Groom's Father can say Bring forth the Bride. Christ did not know when.
Yet more evidence in scripture is GOD calls out his people before judgment upon nations. He called out Noah before the flood. He called out Israel from Egypt.
So how can we as believer not know when Christ returns? Because it is a calling out from the heavens. At he end of the Great Tribulation Christ Second Coming occurs but yet even then no one know the time? But why? Because they believed not in the Son of GOD nor knew GOD's Word.
>God very clearly states He will bless who bless Israel. That's enough reason for me.<
Me too.
They try to create a safe world out of Secular principles and searching for the good in mankind that is independent of God's Light. Such are the fantasies of Communism which was just despotism warmed over, like so many other ism's of the 20th century. Empty promises.
For God is the author of love, compassion and justice that saves the soul in torment and desperation.
There is one thing you can do though that I feel proves your theory wrong. Look at world politics and modern history. Israel, I believe, is still Gods chosen people. Not chosen to get a free pass to heaven, but to bring glory to him. And because he has a soft spot in his heart for them. Israel is a tiny tiny country, of about 6 million people today. Why is such a tiny country at the center of all the worlds problems?
I believe Satan despises Israel and what they represent. He desires to destroy it, simply because they are Gods chosen ones. Fortunately God has his hand of protection around them.
If Gods hand of protection was not around them, how do you explain that 6 million Jews live day after day with 1 BILLION muslims wanting their destruction.
How is it that Israel's military is considered to have some of the best military strategists.
Their scientists are some of the best in the world. Albert Einstein and Edward Teller were both Jews.
Why during the Six Day War did Israel suddenly win, when they were on the verge of utter loss, with hugely outnumbering odds.
On the eve of Israels statehood, they were attacked by the military of surrounding countries. And yet they survive. Not just survive, BUT THRIVE.
When Arabs who lived in the area for hundreds or thousands of years have nothing but sand and rocks to show for their existence. And yet Israel, for all its adversity thrives, ABUNDANTLY, in the area.
There are 2 things in this world that are despised and hated Jews and Christians. And that is because of our relationship with God. One by inheritance and one by Gods choice. Satan hates us both.
Time after time Israel makes agreements for peace. And time after time those peace agreements are broken. Not by Israel but those around her. And yet the world sides against her? Let me get this straight, the other side breaks their agreements, usually not long after the inks dried, and yet its Israel's fault. The world has chosen the father of lies, so they have chosen the lie.
Today, Iran strives for nuclear power, at the same time vowing to remove Israel from the face of the map. Meanwhile, Israel, who it is estimated has enough nuclear power to destroy all the major cities in the surrounding countries. And yet has never used them when threatened or attacked. And yet the world views Israel as the aggressor or antagonist.
The only thing that would make it more obvious for me is if a pillar of fire appeared and stayed over Israel.
Amen.
I cannot read trib doctrine without recognizing its roots in fantasy. Too many debate the number of angels capable of dancing on the head of a pin, or whether the end of days is tomorrow or in 1007 years.
"We cannot kow the day or time." Fantasmagoric speculation based on contortions of scripture are idle and worthless. They detract from the business of living the Way of Jesus. Salvation is only the first step. They are 11 more.
A – FIRST STEPS, FROM DARK TO LIGHT
1 – ACCEPT CHRIST
2 – WITNESS
3 – RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT
4 – WALK IN THE SPIRIT
B – A MEMBER OF THE BODY OF CHRIST
5 – FELLOWSHIP
6 – SACRAMENTS
7 – DISCIPLESHIP
8 – PASTORAL WORK
C – THE SOLITARY JOURNEY
9 – SACRIFICE
10 – SUFFERING
11 – DYING
12 – REBIRTH
Salvation is not the end of the spiritual journey. It is merely the first step.
1948 or 1967....whatever - Matt 24:32....over and over again in the Old Testament, Israel is the Fig Tree. How else can that verse be interpreted?
If Israel isn't important today, why is Satan through ISLAM so bent on Israel's destruction????
Why did this prophecy occur --- "Zechariah 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it."
And why did God make this promise????
Psalm 125:1-2 They that trust in the LORD shall be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth for ever!
As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever!
Why are world events revolving around Israel???
Hello?
Thanks mountn man for your comments. ;-)
Even if a Jew rejects Jesus as Savior, His race, customs and laws, will reveal Jesus to the world as Savior. On a personal level, He will still go to Hell, just as anyone would that was a nonbeliever. The Jews that went to heaven believed that Jesus was promised and put their faith in God to deliver them. The story of Abraham and Issac was the beginning of their favor. There is nothing magical about being a Jew and having a free ride to heaven.
Much can be learned by Christians by studying the Jewish( Orthodox) laws and culture. It is the land of Israel that has significance to believers. The people will be dealt with as any people would. Biblically, we know Israel belongs to the Jews, it's their land that was given to them in Abraham's time. My support of the Jews has more to do with God's people occupying Biblical lands that are their property than some form of religious prejudice. To be in favor of the Palestinians and against the Jews is anti God. The Palestinians have no claim on the land, in my view. OTOH, being Jewish doesn't make you better or right in the eyes of God. It just means you have been chosen to show God to the world. They have paid a great price for this since the beginning of time. It will be up to God to decide how they are treated over time. Jesus made it clear to Nicodemus that Jews do go to hell like everyone else. OTOH, All disciples were Jews and went to heaven, save Judas. Race has nothing to do with faith.
FAITH!
1) Get a genetic test and end all doubt. If you match, welcome to the tribe! Just understand, its not all milk and honey.
2) Go down to the nearest Temple/Synagog and start learning how to live as a Jew and become a Jew by Choice. These folks often are the best of the best. They choose, standing in front of God, to accept this burden and lay it on their children forever.
3) Talk about being a Jew way way diluted and keep doing what you are; which is mostly just confusing yourself and others.
The word "Chosen" is not that helpful. God picked Abraham and apparently said, I will start here and build something. He didn't say he was going to quit building or that the plan wasn't to get each and every human soul into his arms. In fact, the complete opposite is true, the Jews are charged with bringing God to each and every human soul and by the way saving and repairing the world including all of its creatures. No biggie.
One could argue that main line Jews just keep busy trying to save their own kids.. and butts from the various fires that surround them. Its hard to get to the rest of humanity. But, thats the job, take it or leave it. Oh by the way, you gotta get it done taking off 1 day a week too! :)
In my studies most/many christians are unaware of the trials the Jews went thru at so-called christian hands in the middle ages.. In Germany, France, England, Eastern Europe, and other places the same general areas..
Just the same many/most all Jews I know and knew are ignorant that the same exact so-called christians that savaged the Jews murdered other christians in even WORSE ways.. (Fox's Book of Martyrs)..
The same pogroms tortured both Jews and Christians.. at different times in different ways.. Yet most all Jews know only about the actions on Jews during those time(s)..
Not all christians are christians and to be sure not all Jews are Jews.. Who knows the difference?.. A tree is known by its fruit..- Jesus..
1.The name Jews only refers to the tribe of Judah, not the other tribes.
2.My Christian faith wouldn't be at home in a Temple. 3.You're right in that being of the chosen race isn't milk and honey. It just means that you are a chosen servant of God. No better, no worse than others its just that you have an important job to do and He expects more of you.
4.I don't feel confused about it and certainly don't mean to confuse others.
5.Why is it difficult for some to believe that the lost tribes migrated through Europe then to America? Why couldn't that be part of God's plan? Being the superpower of superpowers puts us in a wonderful position to help others, do His work and support His favorite place, Jerusalem. I can't believe that this nation has become what it has in such a short time without His divine intervention, without placing his scattered people where He wants us.
It is signiificant that there are such deeply entrenched and conflicting convictions expressed on this thread.
Significant because it demonstrates the conflicting convictions between those who would treat Jews as apostates and those who would have common cause with them. Significant because it demonstrates the conflict between many Jews and many Christians.
We are not able to get past our various dogmatic beliefs in this cordial forum. How much more difficult it is for those who are under divine Covenant to surrender their heritage.
I'm not touching the others since these are pure Christian theology.
Right. We are partakers of the promise in Christ; that is, salvation. We do not become citizens of the Jewish nation of Israel.
God offered salvation to the Jew first, then to the Gentile. God grafted us onto the Jewish "family" of those who had received salvation- that is how we are part of the body.
God has dealt with his people of Israel differently throughtout the centuries due to thier unbelief and rejection of their Messiah.
And God will deal with them differently and separately during the Tribulation. To see how, see post 186.
We are not able to get past our various dogmatic beliefs in this cordial forum. How much more difficult it is for those who are under divine Covenant to surrender their heritage.
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I'm surprised that this issue caused a squabble. No one has to believe it even though I do. There are much more important issues that are necessary for people to believe, necessary for our soul. One of the most important for all of us to realize is found in the Book of your namesake, Amos 8:11;
"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will
send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor
a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the
Lord"
I believe that is happening now. Many sermons only contain a few lines of God's Word and the rest filled with their words. I'm not saying their words are bad but that is a time to hear from our Father, to have His Word read, not to have a few verses cherry-picked to prove their points. When I study, taking in the thought contained in the whole chapter, verse by verse, it brings clarity, it gives meaning. The words and lessons therein are so much more important than dogma but the other things are fun to discuss.
Revelation is mostly about the Tribulation period...Just prior to Jesus showing up on earth, to end the Tribulation, there's a wedding that takes place in Heaven...
There are people on earth, during the Tribulation and people in Heaven getting married...The betrothed is the Bride of Christ...The Groom of course, is Jesus Christ...The church is in Heaven during the Tribulation...
And with the church in Heaven during the Tribulation, it sure puts a different twist on the scripture that many religions claim for themselves...
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