Posted on 12/31/2006 8:41:18 AM PST by Gamecock
The facade is beginning to peel back from the so-called ministry of Southern California Pastor Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Church" and "The Purpose Driven Life." Unfortunately, many among his ample flock have far too much invested in him, both emotionally and otherwise, to admit their mistakes and cut their losses.
Moreover, he certainly faces no possibility of in-depth scrutiny from the "mainstream media," as his brand of "Christianity" poses little or no threat to their liberal social agenda. Yet to the degree that anyone at all questions Warren as anything less than authentic, his response is thoroughly telling as to his true character, as well as the nature of his "ministry."
Joseph Farah, editor-in-chief of the Internet news site, "World Net Daily," opened a can of worms by calling Warren to account over his fawning praise of the terrorist stronghold of Syria. While there, Warren lauded the brutish dictatorship as "peaceful," claiming that the Islamist government does not officially sanction "extremism of any kind."
When confronted by Farah, an American of Middle Eastern decent who knows too well the history of horror and tragedy faced by persecuted Christians in that region of the world, Warren immediately denied ever making such statements.
Subsequently, Farah offered as evidence a "YouTube" video from Saddleback Church, where Warren is pastor, inarguably proving Farah's statement. So Warren's church simply pulled the video from circulation and continued the denial, being unaware that a copy of the video file had been downloaded and is still in circulation. Warren's follow-up to this inconvenient circumstance is perhaps most telling of all.
In a concurrent set of moves, Warren sent a seemingly conciliatory e-mail to Farah while distributing another to his "flock," in which he characterized Farah's pursuit of the incident as nothing less than "doing Satan's job for him." Throughout this sorry episode, Farah's only error has been to suggest that Warren's disturbing behavior represents some new departure from consistency.
In fact, Warren is actually being entirely consistent. Whether his audience might be Farah himself, Syrian despot Bashar Assad or the Saddleback congregation, Warren tells each exactly what he believes they want to hear.
This pattern is the essence of what Warren is and what has made him so "successful" from a worldly perspective.
For those among his congregation who sincerely want to know the truth, the evidence is ample. Unfortunately, it always has been available, and any present "confusion" merely results from past decisions to ignore that evidence.
For example, his letter to the congregation decrying the "attack" and making his defense by invoking Scripture is barely four paragraphs long. Yet in those four paragraphs, he employs three different "translations" of the Bible. Why, it must be asked, does he not trust any single translation to convey God's message to humanity?
Could it be that he has his own message and agenda to advance, and that he has found it very convenient to utilize different wordings of different passages, not because they better convey God's purpose, but rather his own?
It would be better to ask, could his motivation possibly be anything else?
As Farah has refused to let this indefensible situation simply drop, Warren has responded by taking it to another realm, making personal attacks against Farah in an interview with the magazine, "Christianity Today." But once again, by so doing, Warren succeeds in revealing much more about himself than about his adversary.
Warren, who has not to date been known as any sort of standard bearer for Christian principle in the political arena, decries Farah (whose societal and moral views fall unambiguously on the right) and his ideological allies as part of a wrongful "political" encroachment on the faith.
In contrast, Warren's forays into the political realm prove, not surprisingly, to be decidedly leftist. At a recent conference on the African AIDS epidemic, Warren invited the very liberal Senator Barak Obama (D-Ill.) as a keynote speaker. He justified the inclusion of Obama, who avidly supports abortion and same-sex "marriage," on the grounds that Obama offered a worldly solution to ostensibly curb the spread of the disease through condom usage.
The morally ambiguous message conveyed by the advocacy of condoms, along with their inherent unreliability, make them nothing less than iconic to the abortion industry, which fully understands how much new business they generate. In the face of such pragmatism, one has to wonder what will be next. Perhaps Warren's church will sponsor a "designated driver's ministry" at every bar in its locale.
Appalling though Obama's inclusion in the conference may be, it is nonetheless entirely consistent with Warren's behavior from the beginning.
Leading a megachurch in the culturally disintegrating landscape of Southern California, Warren certainly knows that his prospects of maximizing the "flock" will be greatly enhanced as long as he shows proper deference to the real religion of the area, "political correctness."
In this, his Christian populism movement has proven to be far more palatable to the God-hating secularists of the surrounding communities than such stodgy, old-fashioned and "intolerant" notions as "Thou Shalt Not." And the Warren influence has been predictable wherever it can be found.
If other churches that abide in the Warren philosophy, such as Chicago's gargantuan "Willow Creek," were to truly uphold Christian values among their enormous congregations, they would certainly be a constant "thorn in the side" of their surrounding populace, acculturated into the modernism as those communities certainly are. Yet an amazing degree of compatibility and congeniality exists between the Warren Church model and the social structures of Chicago and Southern California.
The tradeoff between true Christian principle and acceptability to the locals is apparently worth the spiritual sacrifice it entails, with expanding parking lots, increasingly lavish facilities and, of course, fuller collection plates bearing witness. Meanwhile, such churches offer ever less of a worthwhile and much-needed alternative to the ailing world around them.
Ultimately, Warren gives conformist Christians, wearied from their ongoing battle with a world that is increasingly hostile to true Christian faith, an apparent "out" by offering a version that the modern world can find more acceptable while remaining in its present spiritual darkness.
Many among Warren's vast following have made the mistake, in light of his "purpose driven" ministering, of presuming, at the heart of the movement, a Christ-driven purpose. Yet as Warren's real character continues to be revealed, it is becoming apparent that members of that following are presuming too much.
(Christopher G. Adamo is a freelance writer and staff writer for the New Media Alliance. He lives in southeastern Wyoming and has been active in local and state politics for many years.)
BZZZT!!!
He is shaking the church even now--re Ted Haggard and others. All we have to do is watch it happen and pray for those men and women in power. They, as we, can be very easily deceived so we need to pray for them, not tear them down at every opportunity.
Wrong answer!
"These men" are not supposed to BE "in power"!
When you have "men in power", look out!
"Church" is NOT about "power", and "ministry" -- the word -- means to serve (as in "servant").
When you see people rising to positions of POWER -- when you see "the church" taking on the structures and characteristics of secular government, you ought to be having all kinds of red flags and alarms going off. Danger, Will Robinson!
And it's even more chilling when secular government itself embraces this kind of "ecclesiastical organization".
Birds of a feather flock together!
The ONLY thing I'm gonna pray for regarding some so-called "minister" who is "in power" is that he get tossed OUT of power -- as summarily, expeditiously. and unceremoniously as possible!
The "Body of Christ" has ONE head. And it ain't bobblin' above any Hawaiian shirt, either!
When "the church" has taken on the trappings of "the world", it ceases to be "the church".
In "the world" -- "the world system", AKA "cosmos" -- "leadership" is "power" -- and power emanates from the top down.
In the view of this system in the Book of Revelation, there's a pyramid view -- a the top, the things that are the most precious, the most valuable, the most rare -- gold, silver, precious gems -- and at the bottom, that commodity that is the most common, the least valuable, the most readily disposable -- "the souls of men", is I believe how it's termed.
In the world "stuff", and "money", and POWER are what matters, and "success" is gauged in the amount of these things one has accumulated.
In "the church", it's the opposite. An upside-down pyramid. A "leader" has the position of the least prestige, power, influence. He is a servant. What is MOST valuable is "the souls of men."
Look at the "leaders" in the New Testament -- or even the Old Testament for that matter. "Types and shadows", you know.
The "leadership type" guys were always major nightmares. Grief on wheels.
God wanted to give Israel David -- but ONLY when they kept demanding a King -- so that they could be like all the other nations of the world.
So, God tried to give them David, a man after his own heart.
Israel said screw that, we want a REAL King -- someone with prestige -- a man who stands head and shoulders above the crowd. We want Saul!
So God says, well, if I do that, your King won't do all those things you think he's gonna do. Nope. He's gonna take your sons and send them into battle to die FOR his prestige. He's gonna take what you've got, and leave yoru lives and land a ruin.
But, they insisted, so God shrugs his shoulders and says fine, have it your way.
The rest, as they say, is history.
By the way, did I mention that I'm paraphrasing??? (I know y'all can't obect to that!)
In the NT, how many "leaders" pranced about in robes, with people falling at their feet treating them as if they were Rick Warren? LOL!
We've come a wrong way, baby!
"I want no part of a Christianity that eats its own."
Just jumping in the middle of things ... it is the OBLIGATION of a Christian to rebuke false teachings. That is not eating your own" unless you believe legitimate criticism with specifics should go on unchallenged. RW is messing around with ignorant people and the eternal life is at stake - I'd say that's important - point out where it is wrong.
Oh, bring up the violins.
It's not critical thinking, Don Joe. It's criticism and judging. Vomit if you wish. I'll stand out of your way.
As I recall, you came just short of calling down fire from heaven on those who committed the sin of questioning Master Warren.
YOU call it what you will. WE see it for what it is.
NO man is above criticism, or scrutiny, or accountability. This shameless fawning over Warren is what's truly nauseating.
*** Had Warren made these comments prior to the interview? ***
I believe so.
How do we do this?
2 Corinthians 11:14 says that Satan masquerades as an Angel of light and his servants as workers of righteousness. Given this, how are we to tell the difference between good and bad light and the posers and the real workers of righteousness?
Titus 1;10 says that "...there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers,...they must be silenced because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach...These people should be rebuked sharply so that they will be sound in the faith...They claim to know God but by their actions deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good".
Given your admonition, how could/would anyone ever carry out clear commands in Scripture to refute false teaching and the false teachers?
How could we contend for the faith given your constraints?
The Apostle Paul named false teachers and turned them over to Satan...Do you have any words of admonition for him, as well?
They all claim to be "Christians" but what they advocate (verbal) and how they lead their lives (actions) ... leaves one wondering. The same is going on here with Rick Warren. RW has ISSUES and his Scripture twist isn't "good news".
The fruit is rotten. Why would the unregenerate want anything to do with what they see on this forum? That's the Christianity that eats its own and I want no part of it.
Here you go...his name is Pastor Butch Paugh:
Pastor Exposes FEMA Plan To Use Them To Pacify Cowboy Farmers When Martial Law Is Declared
Pastor Butch Paugh | May 23, 2006
About three months ago, I was invited to become a part of a group implementing federal FEMA/Homeland Security directives in our county. I couldn't pass that up!
Lots of interesting and bothersome info being discussed at these meetings...
* Local FEMA's ('across the US' according to a spokesman at our local meeting) are gathering Ministers (Pastors) to help in the event of a "declaration of Martial Law or like police action following a declared emergency or quarantine due to an act of bioterrorism". The discussion centered around the need of 'locals' to "quell the cowboy mentality" of farmers who may have their stock or crops confiscated and subsequently destroyed.
* FEMA and other Disaster Agencies (NVOAD in particular: www.nvoad.org) are training volunteers in a "Peer to Peer" program. That program trains people to assist FEMA in a neighborhood setting--teams reach out to neighbors in a declared emergency and "get their neighbors to obey authorities". According to our spokesman, Ministers will be especially helpful because "you guys and gals can use Romans 13".
These are but two highlights and I would like to share more with you should you find this helpful.
Plum Island is a CDC/USDA effort to stop "Foreign Born Diseases" from coming into the US. They also test domestic diseases. Since the island sits in International waters, our spokesman said "anything sent to them can be declared 'foreign born' and could initiate a quarantine by the fed's". He added, "that would help us all".
By the way, I am a Pastor. You all know one of our congregation
I'm sorry. This is all the response I'm giving this post.
And Timmy (pretend "Catholic") Russert didn't say a word. It figures.
They all claim to be "Christians" but what they advocate (verbal) and how they lead their lives (actions) ... leaves one wondering. The same is going on here with Rick Warren. RW has ISSUES and his Scripture twist isn't "good news".
During 40 days I remember seeing and hearing Rick Warren on tape talking about the different versions he used. It seemed he was a little concerned with it but I cannot remember his exact justification. Rick Warren has little to offer me, but obviously, from what I've seen with my own eyes, has something to offer others. His book helped lead my nephew to Christ and I can't condemn Warren for writing in a style that reached my nephew.
Isn't that special!
Yes, he did (Galatians 3) and it had to do with observing the law. We have freedom in Christ yet we are slaves to righteousness. And in this long thread there have been many things said that are far from anything a slave to righteousness should say to another who has found freedom in Christ.
It's too bad you have a problem with the Holy Spirit convicting people to a saving knowledge of God through Warren's book.
Was He wrong to treat others in such a manner?
Jesus called the Pharisees all sorts of nasty things and He referred to Peter as Satan...Was He wrong to do so?
Paul turned a false teacher over to Satan and he also said that he hoped that the circumcisers cut themselves completely off because of their false teaching about salvation?
Was Paul not operating by the fruit of the Spirit then?
Was he wrong in the things that he said?
Can a harsh word ever be uttered against those who twist and distort the Word of God?
Apples and oranges. I'm out of here for a few hours.
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