Posted on 12/31/2006 8:41:18 AM PST by Gamecock
The facade is beginning to peel back from the so-called ministry of Southern California Pastor Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Church" and "The Purpose Driven Life." Unfortunately, many among his ample flock have far too much invested in him, both emotionally and otherwise, to admit their mistakes and cut their losses.
Moreover, he certainly faces no possibility of in-depth scrutiny from the "mainstream media," as his brand of "Christianity" poses little or no threat to their liberal social agenda. Yet to the degree that anyone at all questions Warren as anything less than authentic, his response is thoroughly telling as to his true character, as well as the nature of his "ministry."
Joseph Farah, editor-in-chief of the Internet news site, "World Net Daily," opened a can of worms by calling Warren to account over his fawning praise of the terrorist stronghold of Syria. While there, Warren lauded the brutish dictatorship as "peaceful," claiming that the Islamist government does not officially sanction "extremism of any kind."
When confronted by Farah, an American of Middle Eastern decent who knows too well the history of horror and tragedy faced by persecuted Christians in that region of the world, Warren immediately denied ever making such statements.
Subsequently, Farah offered as evidence a "YouTube" video from Saddleback Church, where Warren is pastor, inarguably proving Farah's statement. So Warren's church simply pulled the video from circulation and continued the denial, being unaware that a copy of the video file had been downloaded and is still in circulation. Warren's follow-up to this inconvenient circumstance is perhaps most telling of all.
In a concurrent set of moves, Warren sent a seemingly conciliatory e-mail to Farah while distributing another to his "flock," in which he characterized Farah's pursuit of the incident as nothing less than "doing Satan's job for him." Throughout this sorry episode, Farah's only error has been to suggest that Warren's disturbing behavior represents some new departure from consistency.
In fact, Warren is actually being entirely consistent. Whether his audience might be Farah himself, Syrian despot Bashar Assad or the Saddleback congregation, Warren tells each exactly what he believes they want to hear.
This pattern is the essence of what Warren is and what has made him so "successful" from a worldly perspective.
For those among his congregation who sincerely want to know the truth, the evidence is ample. Unfortunately, it always has been available, and any present "confusion" merely results from past decisions to ignore that evidence.
For example, his letter to the congregation decrying the "attack" and making his defense by invoking Scripture is barely four paragraphs long. Yet in those four paragraphs, he employs three different "translations" of the Bible. Why, it must be asked, does he not trust any single translation to convey God's message to humanity?
Could it be that he has his own message and agenda to advance, and that he has found it very convenient to utilize different wordings of different passages, not because they better convey God's purpose, but rather his own?
It would be better to ask, could his motivation possibly be anything else?
As Farah has refused to let this indefensible situation simply drop, Warren has responded by taking it to another realm, making personal attacks against Farah in an interview with the magazine, "Christianity Today." But once again, by so doing, Warren succeeds in revealing much more about himself than about his adversary.
Warren, who has not to date been known as any sort of standard bearer for Christian principle in the political arena, decries Farah (whose societal and moral views fall unambiguously on the right) and his ideological allies as part of a wrongful "political" encroachment on the faith.
In contrast, Warren's forays into the political realm prove, not surprisingly, to be decidedly leftist. At a recent conference on the African AIDS epidemic, Warren invited the very liberal Senator Barak Obama (D-Ill.) as a keynote speaker. He justified the inclusion of Obama, who avidly supports abortion and same-sex "marriage," on the grounds that Obama offered a worldly solution to ostensibly curb the spread of the disease through condom usage.
The morally ambiguous message conveyed by the advocacy of condoms, along with their inherent unreliability, make them nothing less than iconic to the abortion industry, which fully understands how much new business they generate. In the face of such pragmatism, one has to wonder what will be next. Perhaps Warren's church will sponsor a "designated driver's ministry" at every bar in its locale.
Appalling though Obama's inclusion in the conference may be, it is nonetheless entirely consistent with Warren's behavior from the beginning.
Leading a megachurch in the culturally disintegrating landscape of Southern California, Warren certainly knows that his prospects of maximizing the "flock" will be greatly enhanced as long as he shows proper deference to the real religion of the area, "political correctness."
In this, his Christian populism movement has proven to be far more palatable to the God-hating secularists of the surrounding communities than such stodgy, old-fashioned and "intolerant" notions as "Thou Shalt Not." And the Warren influence has been predictable wherever it can be found.
If other churches that abide in the Warren philosophy, such as Chicago's gargantuan "Willow Creek," were to truly uphold Christian values among their enormous congregations, they would certainly be a constant "thorn in the side" of their surrounding populace, acculturated into the modernism as those communities certainly are. Yet an amazing degree of compatibility and congeniality exists between the Warren Church model and the social structures of Chicago and Southern California.
The tradeoff between true Christian principle and acceptability to the locals is apparently worth the spiritual sacrifice it entails, with expanding parking lots, increasingly lavish facilities and, of course, fuller collection plates bearing witness. Meanwhile, such churches offer ever less of a worthwhile and much-needed alternative to the ailing world around them.
Ultimately, Warren gives conformist Christians, wearied from their ongoing battle with a world that is increasingly hostile to true Christian faith, an apparent "out" by offering a version that the modern world can find more acceptable while remaining in its present spiritual darkness.
Many among Warren's vast following have made the mistake, in light of his "purpose driven" ministering, of presuming, at the heart of the movement, a Christ-driven purpose. Yet as Warren's real character continues to be revealed, it is becoming apparent that members of that following are presuming too much.
(Christopher G. Adamo is a freelance writer and staff writer for the New Media Alliance. He lives in southeastern Wyoming and has been active in local and state politics for many years.)
No, don't say that. There's a big difference between Minister Warren and Schuler. NO ONE can match Schuler's trademark rictus smile. (Except for my old insurance agent, *shudder*!) It takes a lifetime of "muscle-memory" effort to affect a permanent "smile" like that! I doubt Master Rick will ever be able to manage it.
In fact, seems like he's taken the opposite tack. I think it'd be difficult for most (non-accolyte) folks to pick him out of a two-man lineup with Michael Moore. The two of 'em seem to be working out of the same playbook: "How to convince the bourgeois masses that you really are a hoi polloi hick -- and get away with it!"
~LOL~
From a purely tactical viewpoint, it's not always prudent for everyone to tell the truth. It can lead to all sorts of repercussions, including but not limited to the self-destruction of agendas that might otherwise have succeeded via the art of deception.
Cynical? You bet! But we're in the real world, and that's how certain folks operate in the real world -- and to blind ourselves to this reality is to refuse the call to be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves."
The end result of that kind of willful blindness is oft a reversal of those terms.
I have no idea, Xenalyte. But I sure do like him.
Nice selective-perspective.
Why don't you look at what Farah actually revealed, instead of restricting yourself to Warren's spin on it?
You will find that the facts are not nearly so pleasant as he would have you believe.
Exactly. Talking about a brother or saying some of the things we see here on FR about any or all evangelists is wrong and God is not happy with it at all. People who do that stand in a precarious place because God WILL judge us for our words against another Christian brother or sister. Better we just pray for them and let God handle the situation.
Tiger is something. Did you hear he's going to be a daddy?
Good point, that kind of got lost in the last 800+ posts.
Rick Warren doesn't take a salary. After his book took off he went to Saddleback and asked them to calculate how much they had paid him since he worked there. When they gave him the figure, he wrote that amount back to the church. Rick Warren also tithes 90% to his church and does not take a salary.
So?
"Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven. So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you."
Very nice example of contextual editing.
The original question was what happens when one attempts to bring unbelievers in as part of the church, "The Body of Christ" -- it was NOT a question of "evangelism" to unbelievers.
There is such a thing as being "unequally yoked with unbelievers," and I do believe that Master Rick has mastered it.
He's not only made it into a foundation of his new religion, but, he's also got otherwise sane Christians defending it -- without even realizing what they're defending.
Like worker bees, driven to a frenzy by pheromone signals, they will attack whatever they perceive as a "threat" to The Hive. No thinking involved, no need to understand, to comprehend... just a primal obedience to chemical signals.
How sad to see this happening.
I think this guy is way off the bubble and I don't want to receive any of his junk from now on. He's harsh and he can be rather nasty. I know true prophets can come across that way but I want no part of it. No, I'm not about to ask that he be stoned. That stuff is up to God, not ME, thankfully.
You got it, Jo!
Yeah, RIGHT on the money!
How dare we engage in critical thinking! How dare we NOT blindly follow any Gantry who claims to be a "Minister of the Gospel"!
Don't we recall that Christ commanded us to lay our brains at the foot of the Cross?
Look at all the evil that has happened due to people being critical of Men of God. For instance, look at the tragedy in Guyana, when people were CRITICAL of The Reverend Jim Jones! If only people had left him to his work, and NOT been so critical, his poor followers would not have had that, um, "accident."
*vomit*
If only that Congressman -- Leo Ryan -- had not been so critical of The Reverend Jones -- SO critical that he actually flew down to Guyana to stick his nose into The Reverend Jone's work -- things could have gone so much differently!
Look at all the evil that has happened due to people being critical of Men of God. For instance, look at the tragedy in Guyana, when people were CRITICAL of The Reverend Jim Jones! If only people had left him to his work, and NOT been so critical, his poor followers would not have had that, um, "accident."
See what happens when people interfere with the work of Mighty Men of God?
As the Bible Says, Ours is Not to Question Why (the book of Kippling, if I recall)
And then, from the Book of Hadith, "Trust and OBEY, for there's NO other way to avoid hellfire damnation, than to OBEY your Reverend Minister!"
When you get right down to it, the ONLY thing we really need to know is the principle of "Submission". Submission to those who assure us that they are Ministers of the Gospel. To question them -- or (*gasp*), to question what they SAY -- this is the only sin worth worrying about.
Submission, that's where it's at. Minister Warren agrees, as we can see from his acceptance of the religion of Islam. After all, what IS "Islam"? It's simply the Arabic word for "Submission"!
Check out Deuteronomy 18:20-23
We should be watching them all...especially the "good ones". One doesn't have to keep an eye on the First Church of Satan, we know what they're all about. Remember, all of the Liberal churches and institutions (such as Harvard and Princeton) started as God fearing ministries and congregations. One can see where they are now.
Paul warned the Ephesian elders every day for three years to the point of tears concerning heresy coming into the church. Now there is a "method" worth emulating...one that also happens to be sanctioned and inspired by God.
As to your last post to me, i suggest that you take up getting pingged to these threads up with Dr. Eckleburg. i'm certain that you and the good Doctor can come to some sort of accomodation.
Bad example. Jones was a false prophet and a nutcase, but there remain to this day some real questions about what actually happened in that jungle. The body counts don't match the popular figure or the estimates from the photographs. Estimates and counts are off by about 50%
Some have suggested that other people were in play besides Jim Jones, and there is some evidence to suggest this. The most popular kook theory is that some military or police force hunted down and killed the remnant who didn't drink the Koolaid. Lo and behold, there did seem to be a large number of people (including Jones) who died from bullet wounds.
We DO however know that it was Jones' people who killed Ryan and his party. Whether Jones ordered it or not is open to question.
Christianity has been subverted from within.
Just as "the left" has subverted government from within -- and the "mainstream" churches -- it is now chipping away at the foundations of Biblical Christianity from within, having insinuated itself into positions of power and influence. And it is meeting with little resistance, and much success.
More and more, it appears that we are seeing exactly what a "great falling-away" looks like. We see a "gospel" of "salvation" -- "salvation" without repentance, without change -- change of thought, change of belief, change of behavior. We are given "salvation" amounting to an endorsement of sin (unmarried "couples", who used to be considered to be "living in sin", are now accepted, and even baptized! Church membership is an endorsment of unregenerate life.
I am having a rough time getting Matthew 18:6 out of my head.
I haven't been much on plastering a thread with verses. It's been my observation that more often than not, those who do so are trying to drown out a discussion, rather than shine light on the facts.
That said, here are a few verses to consider:
Isaiah, 5:13: "Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge"
Isaiah, 5:20: "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
Hosea, 4:6: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."
And finally, John, 9:41: "Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."
Hey, don't mess with my Purpose-Driven-Parody! :)
There is just so much out there to learn and unlearn (like your revelation here) and the greatest thing about FR is bringing together people to teach one another and discussing rather than swallowing the koolaid (sorry, unfortunately, that comment just seemed to fit)...
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