Hey, you want an "old fashioned" Bible?
Try this:
Got one for Christmas and love it.
Posted on 12/31/2006 8:41:18 AM PST by Gamecock
The facade is beginning to peel back from the so-called ministry of Southern California Pastor Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Church" and "The Purpose Driven Life." Unfortunately, many among his ample flock have far too much invested in him, both emotionally and otherwise, to admit their mistakes and cut their losses.
Moreover, he certainly faces no possibility of in-depth scrutiny from the "mainstream media," as his brand of "Christianity" poses little or no threat to their liberal social agenda. Yet to the degree that anyone at all questions Warren as anything less than authentic, his response is thoroughly telling as to his true character, as well as the nature of his "ministry."
Joseph Farah, editor-in-chief of the Internet news site, "World Net Daily," opened a can of worms by calling Warren to account over his fawning praise of the terrorist stronghold of Syria. While there, Warren lauded the brutish dictatorship as "peaceful," claiming that the Islamist government does not officially sanction "extremism of any kind."
When confronted by Farah, an American of Middle Eastern decent who knows too well the history of horror and tragedy faced by persecuted Christians in that region of the world, Warren immediately denied ever making such statements.
Subsequently, Farah offered as evidence a "YouTube" video from Saddleback Church, where Warren is pastor, inarguably proving Farah's statement. So Warren's church simply pulled the video from circulation and continued the denial, being unaware that a copy of the video file had been downloaded and is still in circulation. Warren's follow-up to this inconvenient circumstance is perhaps most telling of all.
In a concurrent set of moves, Warren sent a seemingly conciliatory e-mail to Farah while distributing another to his "flock," in which he characterized Farah's pursuit of the incident as nothing less than "doing Satan's job for him." Throughout this sorry episode, Farah's only error has been to suggest that Warren's disturbing behavior represents some new departure from consistency.
In fact, Warren is actually being entirely consistent. Whether his audience might be Farah himself, Syrian despot Bashar Assad or the Saddleback congregation, Warren tells each exactly what he believes they want to hear.
This pattern is the essence of what Warren is and what has made him so "successful" from a worldly perspective.
For those among his congregation who sincerely want to know the truth, the evidence is ample. Unfortunately, it always has been available, and any present "confusion" merely results from past decisions to ignore that evidence.
For example, his letter to the congregation decrying the "attack" and making his defense by invoking Scripture is barely four paragraphs long. Yet in those four paragraphs, he employs three different "translations" of the Bible. Why, it must be asked, does he not trust any single translation to convey God's message to humanity?
Could it be that he has his own message and agenda to advance, and that he has found it very convenient to utilize different wordings of different passages, not because they better convey God's purpose, but rather his own?
It would be better to ask, could his motivation possibly be anything else?
As Farah has refused to let this indefensible situation simply drop, Warren has responded by taking it to another realm, making personal attacks against Farah in an interview with the magazine, "Christianity Today." But once again, by so doing, Warren succeeds in revealing much more about himself than about his adversary.
Warren, who has not to date been known as any sort of standard bearer for Christian principle in the political arena, decries Farah (whose societal and moral views fall unambiguously on the right) and his ideological allies as part of a wrongful "political" encroachment on the faith.
In contrast, Warren's forays into the political realm prove, not surprisingly, to be decidedly leftist. At a recent conference on the African AIDS epidemic, Warren invited the very liberal Senator Barak Obama (D-Ill.) as a keynote speaker. He justified the inclusion of Obama, who avidly supports abortion and same-sex "marriage," on the grounds that Obama offered a worldly solution to ostensibly curb the spread of the disease through condom usage.
The morally ambiguous message conveyed by the advocacy of condoms, along with their inherent unreliability, make them nothing less than iconic to the abortion industry, which fully understands how much new business they generate. In the face of such pragmatism, one has to wonder what will be next. Perhaps Warren's church will sponsor a "designated driver's ministry" at every bar in its locale.
Appalling though Obama's inclusion in the conference may be, it is nonetheless entirely consistent with Warren's behavior from the beginning.
Leading a megachurch in the culturally disintegrating landscape of Southern California, Warren certainly knows that his prospects of maximizing the "flock" will be greatly enhanced as long as he shows proper deference to the real religion of the area, "political correctness."
In this, his Christian populism movement has proven to be far more palatable to the God-hating secularists of the surrounding communities than such stodgy, old-fashioned and "intolerant" notions as "Thou Shalt Not." And the Warren influence has been predictable wherever it can be found.
If other churches that abide in the Warren philosophy, such as Chicago's gargantuan "Willow Creek," were to truly uphold Christian values among their enormous congregations, they would certainly be a constant "thorn in the side" of their surrounding populace, acculturated into the modernism as those communities certainly are. Yet an amazing degree of compatibility and congeniality exists between the Warren Church model and the social structures of Chicago and Southern California.
The tradeoff between true Christian principle and acceptability to the locals is apparently worth the spiritual sacrifice it entails, with expanding parking lots, increasingly lavish facilities and, of course, fuller collection plates bearing witness. Meanwhile, such churches offer ever less of a worthwhile and much-needed alternative to the ailing world around them.
Ultimately, Warren gives conformist Christians, wearied from their ongoing battle with a world that is increasingly hostile to true Christian faith, an apparent "out" by offering a version that the modern world can find more acceptable while remaining in its present spiritual darkness.
Many among Warren's vast following have made the mistake, in light of his "purpose driven" ministering, of presuming, at the heart of the movement, a Christ-driven purpose. Yet as Warren's real character continues to be revealed, it is becoming apparent that members of that following are presuming too much.
(Christopher G. Adamo is a freelance writer and staff writer for the New Media Alliance. He lives in southeastern Wyoming and has been active in local and state politics for many years.)
There are a number on TV. When I see them, I change the channel. I do not send money to just anyone and that seems to be the only thing they are doing. I do not understand why people watch them.
You said -- "Unfortunately many evangelicals are suckers for conmen. With a Bible in their hand, and heavy reliance on out of context scripture, with the name of Jesus continually invoked you can rake in serious bucks."
The problem here, with many in the Evangelical world, is that they take the "terminology" that someone uses, at face value, without checking on what they *really* mean. So, someone can come in and use the right words (and they are the right words, all right) -- but either the meanings have been changed or they really don't apply them the way the Bible says.
So, they actually trust that these people (and others) are not lying to them. But, they are lying, in many instances. And even so, sometimes when they aren't lying, some of these leaders fall into sin.
And then you said -- "And reassure your congregation that "works" don't count....all you have to do is mouth "I accept Jesus as my savior" and you're assured of your personal salvation."
Well, "works" don't count, in terms of effecting or securing your salvation. That's pretty clear. I've already quoted the following verses several times -- but it bears repeating here, too.
In Romans 10:9-10 -- it says
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
That's it, for salvation. That's not "it" for all that the Bible has to say about living the Christian life, but that's "it" for salvation.
There's a lot of "works" that one can do -- after -- becoming a Christian, and that's good. It's just that those things *after* becoming a Christian have nothing to be with it happening in the first place. These things are an *outgrowth* of becoming a Christian and *not* a "means" to becoming a Christian in the first place.
But becoming a Christian *is* as simple as those two verses -- and *no works* involved.
Regards,
Star Traveler
"I'll bet in the '50s and '60s, MSM types probably tried to paint Billy as some dangerous, extreme-fundamentalist whacko.'
No, not really. Incredible as it may seem, the media has not always been overwhelmingly leftist. The fifties especially were Joe McCarthy's era.
The symposium was not a religious service, and in any event Obama is a member of the United Church of Christ, assuming you were referring to him as the pagan. Or perhaps you meant that Warren is the pagan. :) What would be accurate is to refer to myself as a pagan. Cheers.
"Works is proof of faith."
Not really. Anything can be faked. Only God knows what's in the heart.
I just love hearing Lutherans talk like that! ;-)
Happy New Year my FRiend!
sdg
That thought had crossed my mind as well.
However, I just can't see that happening. He might be tempted to accept invites to both conventions to try and play both sides of the fence, but the Dims will force him to choose one side or the other. They'd yank his invitation and instruct their propagandists to turn on him if he also accepts a speaking engagement with the Republicans.
I looked up the meaning of paganism. It doesn't fit me very well it turns out. Oh well.
However, all is not lost. The Bible in any form is still a very good seller.
(Now don't anyone go getting offended. I'd much rather sell a good old-fashioned copy of the Bible to someone over any of this new-agey feel-good cr@p.)
If pagan's walk in off the stree they should be welcomed warmly, but Church is the goal of Evangelism, not the place for it.
But those with faith will produce works. Those who work without faith have nothing but filthy rags.
You said -- "However, I don't care for pastors that lie."
No, definitely not a good trait for a pastor.
Regards,
Star Traveler
The Lutheran religion also believes that you must be baptized, but you're spot-on. It's not really a very hard concept to understand. Anyone else that puts themselves between us and God is just out for your hard earned cash-o-la, IMHO. :)
"Pagans aren't commanded to worship on the Lord's day. Christians are. "
No they aren't. You're confused. That's Old Testament theology, not New Testament.
Hey, you want an "old fashioned" Bible?
Try this:
Got one for Christmas and love it.
If you want to hear a pastor speak truthfully and with conviction about the disintegrating culture, you should watch the Coral Ridge Hour with Dr. D. James Kennedy, a conservative Presbyterian minister who pulls no punches. Unfortunately, Dr. Kennedy suffered a massive heart attack on Thursday and his pivotal role in his ministry may have ended. This brillant intellectual and galvanizing preacher will be sorely missed.
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