Posted on 12/31/2006 8:41:18 AM PST by Gamecock
The facade is beginning to peel back from the so-called ministry of Southern California Pastor Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Church" and "The Purpose Driven Life." Unfortunately, many among his ample flock have far too much invested in him, both emotionally and otherwise, to admit their mistakes and cut their losses.
Moreover, he certainly faces no possibility of in-depth scrutiny from the "mainstream media," as his brand of "Christianity" poses little or no threat to their liberal social agenda. Yet to the degree that anyone at all questions Warren as anything less than authentic, his response is thoroughly telling as to his true character, as well as the nature of his "ministry."
Joseph Farah, editor-in-chief of the Internet news site, "World Net Daily," opened a can of worms by calling Warren to account over his fawning praise of the terrorist stronghold of Syria. While there, Warren lauded the brutish dictatorship as "peaceful," claiming that the Islamist government does not officially sanction "extremism of any kind."
When confronted by Farah, an American of Middle Eastern decent who knows too well the history of horror and tragedy faced by persecuted Christians in that region of the world, Warren immediately denied ever making such statements.
Subsequently, Farah offered as evidence a "YouTube" video from Saddleback Church, where Warren is pastor, inarguably proving Farah's statement. So Warren's church simply pulled the video from circulation and continued the denial, being unaware that a copy of the video file had been downloaded and is still in circulation. Warren's follow-up to this inconvenient circumstance is perhaps most telling of all.
In a concurrent set of moves, Warren sent a seemingly conciliatory e-mail to Farah while distributing another to his "flock," in which he characterized Farah's pursuit of the incident as nothing less than "doing Satan's job for him." Throughout this sorry episode, Farah's only error has been to suggest that Warren's disturbing behavior represents some new departure from consistency.
In fact, Warren is actually being entirely consistent. Whether his audience might be Farah himself, Syrian despot Bashar Assad or the Saddleback congregation, Warren tells each exactly what he believes they want to hear.
This pattern is the essence of what Warren is and what has made him so "successful" from a worldly perspective.
For those among his congregation who sincerely want to know the truth, the evidence is ample. Unfortunately, it always has been available, and any present "confusion" merely results from past decisions to ignore that evidence.
For example, his letter to the congregation decrying the "attack" and making his defense by invoking Scripture is barely four paragraphs long. Yet in those four paragraphs, he employs three different "translations" of the Bible. Why, it must be asked, does he not trust any single translation to convey God's message to humanity?
Could it be that he has his own message and agenda to advance, and that he has found it very convenient to utilize different wordings of different passages, not because they better convey God's purpose, but rather his own?
It would be better to ask, could his motivation possibly be anything else?
As Farah has refused to let this indefensible situation simply drop, Warren has responded by taking it to another realm, making personal attacks against Farah in an interview with the magazine, "Christianity Today." But once again, by so doing, Warren succeeds in revealing much more about himself than about his adversary.
Warren, who has not to date been known as any sort of standard bearer for Christian principle in the political arena, decries Farah (whose societal and moral views fall unambiguously on the right) and his ideological allies as part of a wrongful "political" encroachment on the faith.
In contrast, Warren's forays into the political realm prove, not surprisingly, to be decidedly leftist. At a recent conference on the African AIDS epidemic, Warren invited the very liberal Senator Barak Obama (D-Ill.) as a keynote speaker. He justified the inclusion of Obama, who avidly supports abortion and same-sex "marriage," on the grounds that Obama offered a worldly solution to ostensibly curb the spread of the disease through condom usage.
The morally ambiguous message conveyed by the advocacy of condoms, along with their inherent unreliability, make them nothing less than iconic to the abortion industry, which fully understands how much new business they generate. In the face of such pragmatism, one has to wonder what will be next. Perhaps Warren's church will sponsor a "designated driver's ministry" at every bar in its locale.
Appalling though Obama's inclusion in the conference may be, it is nonetheless entirely consistent with Warren's behavior from the beginning.
Leading a megachurch in the culturally disintegrating landscape of Southern California, Warren certainly knows that his prospects of maximizing the "flock" will be greatly enhanced as long as he shows proper deference to the real religion of the area, "political correctness."
In this, his Christian populism movement has proven to be far more palatable to the God-hating secularists of the surrounding communities than such stodgy, old-fashioned and "intolerant" notions as "Thou Shalt Not." And the Warren influence has been predictable wherever it can be found.
If other churches that abide in the Warren philosophy, such as Chicago's gargantuan "Willow Creek," were to truly uphold Christian values among their enormous congregations, they would certainly be a constant "thorn in the side" of their surrounding populace, acculturated into the modernism as those communities certainly are. Yet an amazing degree of compatibility and congeniality exists between the Warren Church model and the social structures of Chicago and Southern California.
The tradeoff between true Christian principle and acceptability to the locals is apparently worth the spiritual sacrifice it entails, with expanding parking lots, increasingly lavish facilities and, of course, fuller collection plates bearing witness. Meanwhile, such churches offer ever less of a worthwhile and much-needed alternative to the ailing world around them.
Ultimately, Warren gives conformist Christians, wearied from their ongoing battle with a world that is increasingly hostile to true Christian faith, an apparent "out" by offering a version that the modern world can find more acceptable while remaining in its present spiritual darkness.
Many among Warren's vast following have made the mistake, in light of his "purpose driven" ministering, of presuming, at the heart of the movement, a Christ-driven purpose. Yet as Warren's real character continues to be revealed, it is becoming apparent that members of that following are presuming too much.
(Christopher G. Adamo is a freelance writer and staff writer for the New Media Alliance. He lives in southeastern Wyoming and has been active in local and state politics for many years.)
"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. (John 6:37)
"...and all who were appointed for eternal life believed." (Acts 13:48)
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Evidently the implication Jr A's would have us draw from this is that we can all
go home now . . .
Close our Bibles, fold our hands and snooze until Armageddon.
***Jesus was PRIMARILY fire and brimstone TO RELIGIOUS LEADERS***
Isn't Warren a sterotypical religious leader?
***are sick to DEATH of ornery, exceedingly flawed themselves, so called Christians taking THEIR crosses and bloodying everyone within reach for not believing precisely and constipatedly as that individual believes.***
Kinda like you are doing on this thread?
That caught my attention also...but you left out the rest of the sentence > "he is marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called "sin". This attitude separates man from God. Gee I wonder why you left that out?
Again you like a few other here skim right over all the truth of God in this statement and point out the one thing you find fault with. 557 words and you find nothing to agree with but the statement you don't...revealing ain't it!
Great you say there is something(s) in Meet the Press interview that I/we should be concerned with. Can you point them out please?...no one else has....other than listing Bill Clinton as born again President....so damming and then just well it is all throughout this thread bs. Yea where? I haven't seen it.
Just what goalpost am I moving....still discussing Rick Warren and Saddleback. I am more than happy to discuss MtP interview if it is more than baseless accusations. No one has given word one on any heresy or unAmerican thing Warren said in interview. Maybe you can step up to plate.
This is a stand alone question.
When you are done with that, then we can also look at the accuracy of the statement, "he is marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called "sin"".
Is sin really just an attitude of disobedience toward God?
I already posted a lengthy post, to you, pointing out an issue in the Meet the Press interview...must be you skipped over it. It is there...not too long ago.
I did not skim over the belief statement.
A little bit of leaven...
Go and make disciples...
Beautiful are the feet...
etc.
But their's is done with love and by demonstration of the fruits of the Spirit.
It sounds to me like he was quoting that Bible that you have closed.
I already did...see post# 1106.
All I did was quote it and you had a nasty knee-jerk response.
The response to these two Scripture passages may explain some of your proclivities for all things Warren (and also your ardent defense of him).
Why not?
Warren does when he goes to Synagogue 3000 and teaches them the Purpose Driven methodologies of how to increase the numbers of those going to hell.
Somehow...this is not offensive to those who say that they are concerned about love, fruits of the Spirit and reaching the lost.
BTW, I also don't like the ABOUT THE BIBLE statement. I think that it is too weak.
[... you really don't see Franklin Graham aligning himself with Rick Warren...]
I believe Franklin Graham has preached at Saddleback at least twice. A friend of mine who goes there says Saddleback has a reputation for collecting more Christmas shoeboxes for Samaritan's Purse than possibly any other church in the world.
You didn't answer the questions.
How come?
As far as I can tell, Rick does't give an exact dollar figure of his tithing. But the point is, Warren only keeps 10% and gives the rest back to the church or other causes. Is this little gnat really worth choking on?
What do you think Buffet's $32 billion "gift" to the Gates Foundation was?
humanitarian giving or philanthropy...but not tithing (there is a difference).
I wonder how much, if any, of the Gates Foundation funds Warren's PEACE Plan.
Anyway...So Warren does not reverse tithe 90% to his church as you stated?
And is it really giving your money away when it goes to a foundation under your control (either way - not tithing)?
Using your definition, since he "controls" it, NO pastor can "tithe" to his own church.
You're letting that little gnat get the best of you. Why don't you hork it up already?
What bothers me about this whole thread is that somehow
it's wrong to be wealthy. This is liberal thinking, and a twist
of Scripture concerning wealth and the eye of a needle.
Why is it impossible to believe the Rick Warren is a
Christian AND successful in business, when God has
asked us in the parable of the talents to multiply what is
given to us? Sheesh... Solomon was wealthy and I have it
on good authority that he was even wealthier than Warren
Buffet.
Yep, that is exactly what sin is. We can get into some big theological discussion of what is sin is, but it simply is disobedience to God. Some religious people [think they belong to Christ] will have a different explanation for sin though.
Maybe you don't like the word "attitude". That would be semantics...don't wanna play that merrygoround. The attitude is rebellious and I think that is the point they were making.
So com'on do you got any heresy, evil words, distortion of God's truth from their website or we just gonna play "little" games of armchair quarterback. "I coulda said it better", baloney. If you want me to take you seriously, make a real point that something said here is a reason for concern. Personally I am liking Warren and folks more and more I learn of them. Of course I don't have any axe to grind with them and consider them brothers in the Lord. I take that really seriously.
I looked again and cannot find a lengthy post from you to me about the MtP interview where you pointed out an issue. If you got time please send post number.
Do you agree with any statements made under "What We Believe" on Saddleback website? Agree with most of them? All of them except the one listed above, maybe? Is it, you don't want to agree with anything he says/teaches because your heart is so hard towards him. Just asking.
Just what is it you guys so dislike about this guy? I don't get it. Or maybe I do get "IT" and that is the problem I got with you all that keep attacking him instead of affirming him and loving him as brother.
Go and make disciples...
Beautiful are the feet...
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Kind of like that great model RW is doing, imho.
Go and make disciples...
Beautiful are the feet...
= = =
BTW. I've done a LOT of that sort of thing in China and Taiwan.
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