Posted on 12/31/2006 8:41:18 AM PST by Gamecock
The facade is beginning to peel back from the so-called ministry of Southern California Pastor Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Church" and "The Purpose Driven Life." Unfortunately, many among his ample flock have far too much invested in him, both emotionally and otherwise, to admit their mistakes and cut their losses.
Moreover, he certainly faces no possibility of in-depth scrutiny from the "mainstream media," as his brand of "Christianity" poses little or no threat to their liberal social agenda. Yet to the degree that anyone at all questions Warren as anything less than authentic, his response is thoroughly telling as to his true character, as well as the nature of his "ministry."
Joseph Farah, editor-in-chief of the Internet news site, "World Net Daily," opened a can of worms by calling Warren to account over his fawning praise of the terrorist stronghold of Syria. While there, Warren lauded the brutish dictatorship as "peaceful," claiming that the Islamist government does not officially sanction "extremism of any kind."
When confronted by Farah, an American of Middle Eastern decent who knows too well the history of horror and tragedy faced by persecuted Christians in that region of the world, Warren immediately denied ever making such statements.
Subsequently, Farah offered as evidence a "YouTube" video from Saddleback Church, where Warren is pastor, inarguably proving Farah's statement. So Warren's church simply pulled the video from circulation and continued the denial, being unaware that a copy of the video file had been downloaded and is still in circulation. Warren's follow-up to this inconvenient circumstance is perhaps most telling of all.
In a concurrent set of moves, Warren sent a seemingly conciliatory e-mail to Farah while distributing another to his "flock," in which he characterized Farah's pursuit of the incident as nothing less than "doing Satan's job for him." Throughout this sorry episode, Farah's only error has been to suggest that Warren's disturbing behavior represents some new departure from consistency.
In fact, Warren is actually being entirely consistent. Whether his audience might be Farah himself, Syrian despot Bashar Assad or the Saddleback congregation, Warren tells each exactly what he believes they want to hear.
This pattern is the essence of what Warren is and what has made him so "successful" from a worldly perspective.
For those among his congregation who sincerely want to know the truth, the evidence is ample. Unfortunately, it always has been available, and any present "confusion" merely results from past decisions to ignore that evidence.
For example, his letter to the congregation decrying the "attack" and making his defense by invoking Scripture is barely four paragraphs long. Yet in those four paragraphs, he employs three different "translations" of the Bible. Why, it must be asked, does he not trust any single translation to convey God's message to humanity?
Could it be that he has his own message and agenda to advance, and that he has found it very convenient to utilize different wordings of different passages, not because they better convey God's purpose, but rather his own?
It would be better to ask, could his motivation possibly be anything else?
As Farah has refused to let this indefensible situation simply drop, Warren has responded by taking it to another realm, making personal attacks against Farah in an interview with the magazine, "Christianity Today." But once again, by so doing, Warren succeeds in revealing much more about himself than about his adversary.
Warren, who has not to date been known as any sort of standard bearer for Christian principle in the political arena, decries Farah (whose societal and moral views fall unambiguously on the right) and his ideological allies as part of a wrongful "political" encroachment on the faith.
In contrast, Warren's forays into the political realm prove, not surprisingly, to be decidedly leftist. At a recent conference on the African AIDS epidemic, Warren invited the very liberal Senator Barak Obama (D-Ill.) as a keynote speaker. He justified the inclusion of Obama, who avidly supports abortion and same-sex "marriage," on the grounds that Obama offered a worldly solution to ostensibly curb the spread of the disease through condom usage.
The morally ambiguous message conveyed by the advocacy of condoms, along with their inherent unreliability, make them nothing less than iconic to the abortion industry, which fully understands how much new business they generate. In the face of such pragmatism, one has to wonder what will be next. Perhaps Warren's church will sponsor a "designated driver's ministry" at every bar in its locale.
Appalling though Obama's inclusion in the conference may be, it is nonetheless entirely consistent with Warren's behavior from the beginning.
Leading a megachurch in the culturally disintegrating landscape of Southern California, Warren certainly knows that his prospects of maximizing the "flock" will be greatly enhanced as long as he shows proper deference to the real religion of the area, "political correctness."
In this, his Christian populism movement has proven to be far more palatable to the God-hating secularists of the surrounding communities than such stodgy, old-fashioned and "intolerant" notions as "Thou Shalt Not." And the Warren influence has been predictable wherever it can be found.
If other churches that abide in the Warren philosophy, such as Chicago's gargantuan "Willow Creek," were to truly uphold Christian values among their enormous congregations, they would certainly be a constant "thorn in the side" of their surrounding populace, acculturated into the modernism as those communities certainly are. Yet an amazing degree of compatibility and congeniality exists between the Warren Church model and the social structures of Chicago and Southern California.
The tradeoff between true Christian principle and acceptability to the locals is apparently worth the spiritual sacrifice it entails, with expanding parking lots, increasingly lavish facilities and, of course, fuller collection plates bearing witness. Meanwhile, such churches offer ever less of a worthwhile and much-needed alternative to the ailing world around them.
Ultimately, Warren gives conformist Christians, wearied from their ongoing battle with a world that is increasingly hostile to true Christian faith, an apparent "out" by offering a version that the modern world can find more acceptable while remaining in its present spiritual darkness.
Many among Warren's vast following have made the mistake, in light of his "purpose driven" ministering, of presuming, at the heart of the movement, a Christ-driven purpose. Yet as Warren's real character continues to be revealed, it is becoming apparent that members of that following are presuming too much.
(Christopher G. Adamo is a freelance writer and staff writer for the New Media Alliance. He lives in southeastern Wyoming and has been active in local and state politics for many years.)
Taking one's marbles and going home is a tradition with a long, if not particularly distinguished history.
He could have taken another tack, i.e., calling in the reinforcments, to "deal with you" like white corpuscles closing in on a germ, but he sized up his options and decided to declare victory and leave (except that I expect he'll still be sticking around).
And, of course, I am NOT pinging him, even though I AM discussing him, because he explicitly requested that I NOT ping him anymore, in post # 1,070 in this thread (i.e., "But let me be clear: I don't want you pinging me. Please demonstrate some character and honor this request.")
I post the above just in case some coy Warrenite think it cute to "slap abuse" for my "failure to ping someone I reference". (And yes, I would NOT put it past 'em!)
Yes, I know the feeling -- having been subjected to it repeatedly at the hands of the Warrenites.
1,080
And no, I haven't made this request of you before. But yes, I am bone-weary of something, and that is the lack of the fruits of the Spirit in this thread.
Fortunately, after close to 40 years of experience with nearly every facet imaginable of "the church", I have grown a thick skin, and am inured to pretty much everything except for actual physical attack -- which, thankfully, has rarely been threatened against me (and has always been checkmated by me when it was threatened; I am a "sheep", as it were, but I am not "meek and mild" in all circumstances).
[non-pinged as per your request]
Do you guys know what point went over my head and that I failed to address in my posts?
scripter and I had a previous agreement to not to take things personally...I guess he doesn't like that agreement anymore.
Apparently, he is bone-weary of others lack of the fruit of Spirit but not of false teachers and their apologists.
Not really surprising; it's one of Warren's core values -- being "civil" at all costs, and, if you look at his scolding of Christians vis-a-vis criticism of his deferential dealings with Obama and Syria and... The one consistent theme is that "bad" is "good" -- or at least, acceptable -- if it's CIVIL. But, "good" is absolutely intolerable, if it is not presented in the form of a mealymouthed, "meek and mild", milquetoaste pansy-dance.
Apparently, he is bone-weary of others lack of the fruit of Spirit but not of false teachers and their apologists.
We've been wrong about him. Warren isn't preaching the Gospel of Oprah. If you look at his M.O., he's walking in the footsteps of Martha Stewart!
Now let's all grit our teeth and smile, and do everything to present the appearance of civility. ("Or else!")
Welcome to "Elegant Christianity"!
(Gag me with a spoon hand-monographed, Martha Stewart Brother Rick Brand dinner napkin!)
I just wish the Warrenites would stop flipping out over every criticism of him. There are people I like (a lot) who are criticized. I don't take it personally.
The self righteous "judge not" attitude while they call everyone else pharisees is tiresome but ignoring false teaching is one of the worst things we could do. The groundwork for the falling away is being laid. And just about nobody cares.
More info on reverse tithing.
MR. RUSSERT: As we speak on this Christmas Eve morning, tonight. many Americans will be surrounded by an abundance of gifts. I was quite taken by something that you said, Pastor Warren, and I’ll put it on the screen. “I don’t think it’s a sin to be rich. I think it’s a sin to die rich.”
DR. WARREN: Yeah.
MR. RUSSERT: Explain that.
DR. WARREN: Well, in my own personal life, when “The Purpose Driven Life” came out and it became the best-selling book for a long, long time in the world...
MR. RUSSERT: Twenty-five million copies.
DR. WARREN: ...yeah, now 30. And it’s in 56 languages. Well, that brought in enormous amounts of money. And it also brought in a lot of attention. And I had to pray about what I call the stewardship of affluence and the stewardship of influence. And I began to go to Scripture, and I, I found a verse in the New Testament on what to do with the money, and a verse in the Old Testament on what to do with the, the fame. And on—in 1 Corinthians 9, Paul—Apostle Paul says, “Those who teach the gospel should make a living by the gospel.” In other words, “It’s OK to pay your priest or your pastor.” That’s a legitimate offer to society. But, Paul says, “I will not accept that right, because I want the freedom to serve God and be a slave to no man.” And I thought, “I want to do this.” And when, literally, when all this money started pouring in, Kay and I make five decisions on what to do with the money.
First, we said, we’re not going to spend it on ourselves. I still live in the same house I’ve lived in 15 years, I drive a six-year-old Ford truck. I don’t own a boat, I don’t own a house—a second house. I don’t own—I don’t own a plane. We just said we’re not going to—I’m not going to spend it on that. A second was I stopped taking a salary from Saddleback Church about four years ago. Third is, I added up all that the church had paid me in 24 years at that time and I gave it all back. And I did that because I knew that I was being put under the spotlight and I didn’t want anybody to question my motives of why I do what I do. And sure enough, the very next week I was interviewed by Time, that, that other magazine. Have you ever heard of it?
MR. MEACHAM: Do they publish weekly now?
DR. WARREN: Yeah, I think so.
MR. MEACHAM: Oh.
DR. WARREN: And the first question the author—the editor—the reporter asked was, “What’s your salary?” Which I thought, OK, here’s another fat cat megachurch pastor fleecing the flock. And I said, “Well, honestly, I’ve now served my church for free for 25 years.” Her face went white and I thought, it was worth every penny just to say that. You know, I had to repent of my pride, but I really felt good for about a minute. You know, and then I got real humble again. But I did that. Then we set up some charities, one’s called Acts of Mercy, which helps those with AIDS. And another on training leaders and another on this Global Peace Plan.
MR. RUSSERT: What did the New Testament tell you about celebrity?
DR. WARREN: The last thing I did is we became reverse tithers. When my wife and I got married 31 years ago, we started giving 10 percent of our income as a tithe to our church. And each year we would raise it at least 1 percent. Now, we never told anybody for over 30 years--25, 28 years. We’ve been married 31 years and, and the first year of marriage we raised it to 11 percent. Second year to 12. Well, we’ve now been married 31 years, we give away 90 percent and we live on 10. And honestly, that’s quite fun. The joy of giving at Christmastime—I really do belive in the joy of giving. I’m probably the happiest person on the planet because we get to use money in so many great ways. You can’t outgive God.
On the, on the stewardship of affluence, I was reading Psalms 72 and it’s an interesting prayer, it’s Solomon’s prayer for more influence. When you read this prayer, it sounds like the most egotistical prayer because he says, “God, I want you to make me famous.” He says, “I want you to spread the fame of my name to many countries. I want you to give me power, give me blessing and make we well-known.” And it sounds pretty selfish till you read the, the motivation and he says, “So that king may support the widow and orphan, defend the defenseless, care for the sick, assist the poor, speak up for the oppressed, the immigrant, the foreigner,” things like that. The purpose of influence is to speak up for those who have no influence, and that changed my life. It turned my old—I had to repent and said I will spend the rest of my life using whatever influence I’ve got for those who have little influence.
RE: Post #939
More about death and resurrection
ABOUT GOD
God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God.
Genesis 1:1,26,27; 3:22; Psalm 90:2; Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Corinthians 13:14
ABOUT MAN
Man is made in the spiritual image of God, to be like Him in character. He is the supreme object of God´s creation. Although man has tremendous potential for good, he is marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called "sin". This attitude separates man from God.
Genesis 1:27; Psalm 8:3-6; Isaiah 53:6a; Romans 3:23; Isaiah 59:1,2
ABOUT ETERNITY
Man was created to exist forever. He will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or in union with God through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life. Heaven and Hell are places of eternal existence.
John 3:16; John 2:25; John 5:11-13; Romans 6:23; Revelation 20:15; 1 John 5:11-12; Matthew 25:31-46
ABOUT JESUS CHRIST
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all men by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven´s glory and will return again to earth to reign as King of kings, and Lord of lords.
Matthew 1:22,23; Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1-5, 14:10-30; Hebrews 4:14,15; 1 Corinthians 15:3,4; Romans 1:3,4; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Timothy 6:14,15; Titus 2:13
ABOUT SALVATION
Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God´s offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin´s penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith.
Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9; John 14:6, 1:12; Titus 3:5; Galatians 3:26; Romans 5:1
ABOUT ETERNAL SECURITY
Because God gives man eternal life through Jesus Christ, the believer is secure in salvation for eternity. Salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God, not by the self-effort of the Christian. It is the grace and keeping power of God that gives this security.
John 10:29; 2 Timothy 1:12; Hebrews 7:25; 10:10,14; 1 Peter 1:3-5
ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son as God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. The Christian seeks to live under His control daily.
2 Corinthians 3:17; John 16:7-13, 14:16,17; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 2:12, 3:16; Ephesians 1:13; Galatians 5:25; Ephesians 5:1
ABOUT THE BIBLE
The Bible is God´s word to all men. It was written by human authors, under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error.
2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20,21; 2 Timothy 1:13; Psalm 119:105,160, 12:6; Proverbs 30:5
GREAT.
THANKS TONS.
LOVE IT.
I suppose you've noticed the new STOP/SLOW thread and what wonderful wisdom Rick shared in that article.
Not that it slowed the Jr Accusers's now a gnat's flatulance's worth, of course.
First, lay down a single ground rule -- one that (as The Left has proven effective over years of application) "no reasonable person could oppose."
That ground rule is that everything must be "civil", and, by exention, anything that is not "civil", is automatically discredited, disqualified, and thus, dismissed.
(It's scary effective, dude! :) I mean, think about it; NO need to debate anyone or anything "on the merits", and therefore, NO risk of saying something to screw up your own position! Just tsk-tsk the opponent as "lacking civility", and move on, back into the PAR-TAY!)
Built upon that foundation is the notion that someone as "obviously" laid-back as Minister Warren is an unquestionably fair arbiter of civility. (In fact, seems to me that even questioning his qualifications as an "arbiter of civility" is itself an "act of incivility"! LOL! Beauty way, man! Doubting The Man is proof that you're wrong!)
If someone so demonstrably "inclusive" and "tolerant" as Reverend Rick declares something... or someone, to be lacking in civility, well, that's that!
The coup de grace d'etat is affected when disagreement is quietly, "meekly", artfully -- but indubitably -- defined as incivility.
At that point, it's *Game*Over* -- for his critics. They are dismissed, in essence, because they disagree.
In the final analysis, agreement with Warren is "civility", and disagreement is incivility.
Slick as hell (no pun intended), and damned effective (again, NPI).
We could perhaps call it a form of grouip hypnosis, or "mental ju jitsu", or "prestidigitation of the mind", but let's, in the spirit of good-natured civility, invoke a bit of a good-humored double entendre, and call it "sleight of mind" :)
I was at one point tempted to term it "G85" -- the "gospel" for the 85-IQ crowd -- but what put the kibosh to that wordplay was the realization that while this new "gospel" would undoubtedly be intensely effective on folks hanging onto the sorry side of the Bell Curve, it seems to be frighteningly effective on many people who really ought to know better.
This, IMO, makes it very insidious, much moreso than, say, the likes of "ministers" like Robert Tilton. Tilton-model charlatans prey on folks who really don't know better.
Stick a Tilton-type "minister" in the rarefied heights that Warren so effortlessly navigates, and he'd be laughed right out of the sky the first time he opened his yap and started wagging his bony finger. But Warren, on the other hand, with a "gospel" no less worthy than Tilton's, endures no such encumbrance.
I find this very chilling, especially when I reflect on "what the Bible says"...
Now he is going to ignore you too...just great!
I went back through the posts and re-read where I picked up in the thread. I specifically addressed his points relative to love and fruits of the Spirit. I guess those responses went over his head.
"Elegant Christianity"...Where it is only polite to speak out against those who have a sharp rebuke for false teachers. It is, however, impolite to address the false teacher or teaching itself (that would be unloving and lacking in fruit).
Please pass the Grey Poupon.
Don Joe, can you please put together a M. Stewart monogrammed Bible paraphrase that removes certain "inelegacies" such as:
"Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh...join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you. For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as the enemy of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things." (Philippians 3:17-19)
These types of things are just so nasty and harmful to the "testimony" of the "Body". Make it more delicate, frilly and flowery please....like an 800 count cotton sheet fresh off of a spring day clothes-line (an egyptian cotton perhaps?).
...And the part where Jesus refers to Peter as Satan (He wasn't too delicate to the Pharisees, either).
...And definitely do something with 2 Peter 2! My goodness (get your breath - oh the horror)...Peter compares false teachers to a dog that returns to its vomit...YIKES!
Well...as you can see, there is a lot of work to be done.
I will take mine with a custom champagne corduroy cover with a matching paisley monogram (PEC).
Thanks!
My second request. Please stop pinging me. I ignored the last ping hoping you just made a mistake. But this additional ping requires another notice.
I admire his desire to do good!... no question. BUT he has to be smart to know that when you bring such a huge "political charged" person as Obama - now, consider the timing - into his formula, then his actions will take political overtones, inevitably. And this is what I DON'T LIKE.
He says (Rick Warren) that it is impossible to agree with everyone on every issue (even w his wife), and he tries to find common ground with anyone willing to help... Makes "some" sense... But did he have to get "The New Messiah" into the picture? NO! bad miscalculation! instead of "uniting" he actually "divided." Obama represents SOMETHING!... His views have VALUE (pro-abortion, pro-homosexuals, a "liberal-Christian, etc), because of his recently acquired status (Rock start status, they call it), and his potential to be president... Because of that Mr. Warren, you should have kept him out of your plans... I'm surprised you did not see this, imo. Oh.. You wanted a black person? There plenty of others you could have chosen.
Wake me up, please. NOTHING this sureal can go on this long, can it? Friend, we are at something close to a THOUSAND posts in this thread alone. Many, many, many of them are replete with detailed explanations of your Master's heresies -- complete with links to source material. If you think you're gonna toss that lame hipshot at me and then play "gotcha!", you are one sad case. The same applies if you think you're going to tease me into starting over from Page 1, patiently explaining that which has been covered in excruciating detail already.
So in other words you cannot quote even one valid heresy or unAmerican thing Warren says in this interview. I sure have not seen anything [direct quote] in this thread, just accusations with no proof of his ever having done or said that.
As for you calling Warren my "Master". Other than reading his book I have not paid much attention to him....till now....and thanks to this thread I am liking him more and more. It would seem Warren and I have the same Master. Who is your master? Is He humble or is he an accuser?
Ah, the Gift of False Humility!
I still live in the same house I’ve lived in 15 years, I drive a six-year-old Ford truck. I don’t own a boat, I don’t own a house—a second house. I don’t own—I don’t own a plane.
Matthew, Chapter 6 says this:
"16": Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward."17": But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head, and wash thy face;
"18": That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.
It's not about fasting, or boats, or even airplanes.
It's about trying to look humble. LOL, hey, look at ME, people, I'm humble! See HOW much humility I've got? Hey, I don't even own an airplane!
And then, there's the "honesty" thing. Here's what Master Warren said after boasting (in humility) how he gave his church a refund on the wages they'd paid him in his prior employment with them over the course of 25 years:
I don't doubt that he made a payment in that amount. And, I don't doubt that he said the above to Russert.
And I said, “Well, honestly, I’ve now served my church for free for 25 years.”
But he didn't say it "honestly" -- at least, not in the "conventional" sense of the word, prior to any "Creative Destruction" performed on the lexicon.
If he'd HONESTLY "served my church for free for 25 years", then he wouldn't have had any amount of money to refund them! He'd say, OK, I want to pay you back everything you've paid me for the past 25 years! How much do I owe you? And they'd reply, "You don't owe us anything! Don't you remember? You served us for free for twenty five years, Brother Rick!"
No, this ain't nitpicking. This is pointing out how he plays fast and loose with words, how he says what it takes to boast of his humility -- and generosity, too -- regardless of... anything!
By the way, it's really bad form to go spamming the thread with reams of Rickyspeak copied and pasted into the forum.
It's one thing to express your OWN arguments -- even quoting the occasional relevant source material. It's something entirely different to choke us on a wad of pasted-in Warren-stuff.
If you have something to say, say it. If you want to go plastering Warren's tripe up like wallpaper in an outhouse, then go buy a domain and put up you own Luv*Rick website. But don't try to stifle discussion here by smothering us in miles of his crap.
That tactic is SO pathetically transparent, and OLD as the hills (what? you think YOU thought it up?), and unwelcome in any forum I've ever seen -- and, if reasoning won't work with you, then you should also consider that it is beyond ineffective. It is counterproductive. All it does is annoy people. (And unless I'm mistaken, this is NOT the first time this particular Warren-o-ganda has been copied into this thread.)
Thanks in advance.
Well said.
Are you really incapable of restraining yourself from constantly engaging in juvenile insults of those who disagree with you?
Not that it slowed the Jr Accusers's now a gnat's flatulance's worth, of course.
If you cannot form a cogent argument on the merits, must you continue to embarrass yourself by spewing a stream of puerile taunts?
They certainly don't hurt our feelings, or make us feel guilty -- or even "make us look bad". All they do is to reflect badly on YOU.
Honestly, the last time I've been taunted in that manner by an equal was when I was in the eighth grade.
Have you no shame?
PS: It really isn't particularly "holy" to use euphemisms and contractions and eleven cent words like "flatulence" (even if you ever DO learn to spell it), when you really mean "fart".
And given the CRAP going on in the Warrenite "churches", I hardly think that using the word "FART" would consign one to the pit of hell. At least, I hardly think a Warrenite would believe it! (I mean, it's OK to shack up, but it's not OK to use the word "fart"? LOL! Talk about "straining at gnats while swallowing camels"!)
Well, yeah, you got me there, pal.
Give me [quote] just one valid heresy or unAmerican thing Warren says in this interview.Wake me up, please. NOTHING this sureal can go on this long, can it? Friend, we are at something close to a THOUSAND posts in this thread alone. Many, many, many of them are replete with detailed explanations of your Master's heresies -- complete with links to source material. If you think you're gonna toss that lame hipshot at me and then play "gotcha!", you are one sad case. The same applies if you think you're going to tease me into starting over from Page 1, patiently explaining that which has been covered in excruciating detail already.
So in other words you cannot quote even one valid heresy or unAmerican thing Warren says in this interview.
I CANNOT stick a reply into the middle of YOUR post, Einsein!
As to your demand, LOL! You're not my boss. And YOUR boss/leader/messiah-figure has been SO completely debunked in just this ONE thread, that I see NO reason to play your game.
Nice try. Now Shoo! Get thee behind me, Warren!
Oh, PS:
No, you are NOT gonna pin that one on ME!
thanks to this thread I am liking him more and more.
If you want to touch the hem of his garment, be my guest -- but don't go tellin' th' class that I drove you to it!
And as to your taunt, "Who is your master? Is He humble or is he an accuser?", MY master is Jesus Christ, God's Son and Savior. And he is not boxed into your "humble or an accuser" bifurcation.
God is merciful with the merciful, and froward with the froward.
Christ is humble with the humble, but on the other hand...
You reminded me of an old joke:
On Yom Kippur, Mr. Shapiro, one of the synagogue's wealthiest congregants prostrates himself before God. "Dear God, You are so mighty and I am but a piece of dust in the vast desert of your countenance. I am nothing."
Mr. Weinberg, another wealthy synagogue member, won't be outdone. "My Lord, you are omnipotent and I am just a speck on the face of the sun in comparison to your greatness. I am nothing."
Finally, Mr Fishbein, a poor but pious man, gazes to heaven and proclaims, "Oh, God, I am your lowliest servant; but a drop of mud under your feet. I am nothing."
Shapiro gestures at Fishbein and whispers to Weinberg, "Hah! Look who thinks he's nothing!"
Any that reminds me of another one (I grew up Jewish, I got a million of 'em! :)
This one, though, is of particular relevance to the topic at hand, since it deals with civility!
Once upon a time, a husband and wife were sitting on their knees, facing a trench, filled with dead and dying bodies. Behind them stood a Nazi guard, with a machinegun.
The Nazi cocks his gun, and upon hearing the sound, the husband mutters, "Lousy stinking filthy Nazi SOB!"
The wife give him a sharp elbow to the ribs, and whispers, "Shush! You'll make him mad!"
Per the interview he does not reverse tithe 90% to his church...But he does give 90% of his money "away".
Is it giving the money away when you give it to (3) charities that are under your own control?
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