Discovery of Constant, Sun Spot Induced, Harmless 1500 Years Global Warming Cycles

LifeSiteNews ^ | 12/22/06 | Steve Jalsevac

[cogitator]

Mars is warming up too, there is evidence of underground water flows that have worked their ways up to the surface to produce above ground flows that flow and evaporate.

The observations of Mars have indicated a regional warming, not a global warming. Google the exact phrase "Global warming on Mars?" to get the RealClimate article discussing this.

The observations of water outflows probably indicate a melting process -- could be caused either by increased solar insolation in spring or by subsurface hydrothermal activity.

[jonrick46]

Now the big question: is there more global warming from CO2 emissions than there is from the emission of hot air from blow hards? Al Gore disciples, this is you chance to step up to the plate.

[roaddog727]

Bumperoo.

The long view usually prevails and is more often than not, correct.

[xcamel]

You're dead wrong - all studies show mars is warming at exactly the same rate as the earth.

[wagglebee]

Since Mars' position relative to the Sun remains constant, logic would dictate that it's surface would warm and cool at the same rate as the Earth.

[LibWhacker]

Ha! What Singer and Avery don't realize is that all evidence, absolutely all, supports global warming, no matter how strongly it seems to contradict it. Just give 'em time to explain it.

[xcamel]

Mars goes through the same Milankovitch Cycles earth does, along with the sunspot levels (less spots, more heat), procession variations, orbit eccentricity, axial tilt, along with 1500 year solar output variability (not related to spots).

[xcamel]

A) Global warming has been going on for 11,000 years more or less, no question.
B) Man, et. al. has had little if anything at all to do with it.
C) You can make a GW's head explode if you show them how all the fossil fuels are really just ancient Global Warming and pure Solar Power locked up in plant life eons ago just for us.

[cogitator]

You're dead wrong - all studies show mars is warming at exactly the same rate as the earth.

Citations, please. I'll toss down my first one:

(Note that due to the upcoming holiday weekend, responses over the next few days may be delayed.)

Global warming on Mars? (go to this link for the unlinked references in the excerpt below)

"Globally, the mean temperature of the Martian atmosphere is particularly sensitive to the strength and duration of hemispheric dust storms, (see for example here and here). Large scale dust storms change the atmospheric opacity and convection; as always when comparing mean temperatures, the altitude at which the measurement is made matters, but to the extent it is sensible to speak of a mean temperature for Mars, the evidence is for significant cooling from the 1970's, when Viking made measurements, compared to current temperatures. However, this is essentially due to large scale dust storms that were common back then, compared to a lower level of storminess now. The mean temperature on Mars, averaged over the Martian year can change by many degrees from year to year, depending on how active large scale dust storms are.

In 2001, Malin et al published a short article in Science (subscription required) discussing MGS data showing a rapid shrinkage of the South Polar Cap. Recently, the MGS team had a press release discussing more recent data showing the trend had continued. MGS 2001 press release MGS 2005 press release. The shrinkage of the Martian South Polar Cap is almost certainly a regional climate change, and is not any indication of global warming trends in the Martian atmosphere. Colaprete et al in Nature 2005 (subscription required) showed, using the Mars GCM, that the south polar climate is unstable due to the peculiar topography near the pole, and the current configuration is on the instability border; we therefore expect to see rapid changes in ice cover as the regional climate transits between the unstable states.

Thus inferring global warming from a 3 Martian year regional trend is unwarranted. The observed regional changes in south polar ice cover are almost certainly due to a regional climate transition, not a global phenomenon, and are demonstrably unrelated to external forcing. There is a slight irony in people rushing to claim that the glacier changes on Mars are a sure sign of global warming, while not being swayed by the much more persuasive analogous phenomena here on Earth."

[cogitator]

Mars goes through the same Milankovitch Cycles earth does

Where in the world did you get that (very incorrect) idea?

[xcamel]

..all the data that's sited to fit your cockeyed theories.
(both reponses)

[cogitator]

..all the data that's sited to fit your cockeyed theories.

Lack of evidential and scientific support duly noted.

[painter]

BUMP!!

[xcamel]

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice-age_031208.html
http://www.mos.org/cst-archive/article/80/9.html
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast09feb_1.htm
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=17977
http://www.enterprisemission.com/warming.htm
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/10/global-warming-on-mars/
also:
http://deblij.net/index.html

[cogitator]

Thanks for citing the RealClimate reference back to me, as it refutes your premise!

[SunkenCiv]

Update only.

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[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
Note: this topic is from 12/26/2006. Thanks wagglebee. It got added at some point, but never pinged. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.