Russia: Nostalgia For USSR Increases

Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty ^ | December 23, 2006 | By Victor Yasmann

[DeaconBenjamin2]

I think it's well established that the Tsars saw themselves as geopolitical competitors with Great Britain. I can't imagine where the Tsars would have seen themselves in competition with the US (excepting perhaps China and Korea, where Japan, Great Britain, France, and Germany were also in the competition).

[A. Pole]

I think it's well established that the Tsars saw themselves as geopolitical competitors with Great Britain.

Perhaps in Central Asia. But Russia and Britain were allies against Napoleon and during WWI.

[GSlob]

Following the tripartite division into economics, culture, and sociology, one could assume a modified position of Samuel Huntington and argue for the primacy of sociology as THE fundamental civilizational determinant [and indeed claim that sociology = civilization; the marxists would argue for the primacy of economics]. On this assumption, the sociology is the only thing that matters there, and not the geopolitics, territory, Siberia etc. Besides, the Chinese to whom Siberia might be eventually lost or sold, belong to the same [or rather sociologically kindred] civilization, what one Karl Marx used to call "asiatic despotism". This is the level at which one looks for changes - and at this level the things are unchangeable.

[OldPossum]

Those are the Russians who long for the days when everything they said was subject to being overheard and transmitted to the "proper authorities" and when they did not have to make decisions, such matters, too, were in the hands of those proper authorities. Those aren't people, they're sheep, pure and simple.

[A. Pole]

This is the level at which one looks for changes - and at this level the things are unchangeable.

Are you saying that abolishment of serfdom in Russia and slavery in USA (about the same time) did not change things at fundamental level?

When FDR was elected FOUR times was it a sign of despotism? Putin is as popular as FDR for similar reasons.

[A. Pole]

Those are the Russians who long for the days when everything they said was subject to being overheard and transmitted to the "proper authorities" and when they did not have to make decisions, such matters, too, were in the hands of those proper authorities. Those aren't people, they're sheep, pure and simple.

Or maybe they are afraid that robber barons who caused death of millions (through free market shock therapy) return?

[MARKUSPRIME]

I agree 100%

[GSlob]

Yes, I'm saying precisely that, for the level you mentioned I see as superficial and not as truly fundamental. Serfdom in its essential features [sans the sales of the serfs- they became state property, nobody was left to sell them to] was effectively reborn in "kolkhoses" - which begs the question, how thoroughly had it been abolished, and from which more socially fundamental phenomena did it get reborn? And the absence of such re-birth in the US means that the slavery here existed as sociologically superficial [with regard to the basis of civilization] phenomenon.

[Cacique]

btt

[A. Pole]

I am sorry, but it seems to me that you are prejudiced against Russians same way as some are prejudiced against Jews. You use different measures to judge/evaluate their culture than you use toward other nations. The desired result of your analysis is fixed, the arguments and methods are adjusted appropriately.

If Russia were located beyond the ocean, she would not be bled by WWI and the small political sect of Bolsheviks could not seize power there.

Communism came from Western Europe and had broader support in Germany, Spain, France, Italy etc ... There was a bloody civil war in Spain, in Germany and Italy the Communism was suppressed by Fascism which in National Socialist form was not better than the Soviet system.

The core patriotic part of Russian society fought long war against the Reds (not so differently than it was done in Spain). They lost because they did not get help from abroad. The large part of the Soviet elite was recruited from non-Russians and the Soviet system mellowed over generations as Russian ethnic and cultural element took over for demographic reason.

the absence of such re-birth in the US means that the slavery here existed as sociologically superficial [with regard to the basis of civilization] phenomenon.

We do not know it. Slavery was integral part of culture and economy in the South and blacks got full civil rights only in the second half of XX century. Now we see the rise of Political Correctness and of totalitarian militant secularism (not so different from the one which devastated Russia.)

Do not take liberties for granted, and do not project weak aspects of the human nature which are UNIVERSAL into one demonized group be they Russian, Jews or Serbs. As history teaches, it brings evil fruits.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

In my travels in Eastern Europe after the downfall of the USSR, the ones other than the commies them selves were the older people who bought into the womb to the tomb promise for their life of labor.

[A. Pole]

In my travels in Eastern Europe after the downfall of the USSR, the ones other than the commies them selves were the older people who bought into the womb to the tomb promise for their life of labor.

If older (and less old) people in USA lost their Social Security, retirement funds and saving on the altar of shock "therapy" to enrich a few Khodorkovskis the reaction would be stronger.

[GSlob]

Prejudice means judging without knowledge [pre-judging], If one has knowledge and judges based on it, then whatever else it could be, prejudice it is not. Of that knowledge I - by virtue of being born and growing up there - claim sufficiency. And at sociological/civilizational level Russian civ and history are beautifully summed in the saying "ya nachal'nik - ty der'mo, ty nachal'nik - ya der'mo" [If I'm the boss, then you are a turd, and if you're the boss then I'm a turd]. This is that very fundamental level of which I was writing on this thread earlier. And naturally I deny the validity of such a civilization in all its parts: root, trunk, bark, leaves and branches. Barbari sunt, barbarice egit.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

I expect that to happen!

[A. Pole]

Of that knowledge I - by virtue of being born and growing up there - claim sufficiency.

Hmm, this is strange if you are Russian, how come that you could improve yourself so much :) How do I know that you are not a homo sovieticus and "kagebun" even now?

If the leopard cannot change its spots, why should YOU?

[GSlob]

I am not a genetic russian, glory be. But I was born and grew up there, and claim sufficient knowledge of the place's sociology, culture and history, native proficiency and absolute literacy in language [including complex - and very complex - grammar] etc. And as for "how I managed to improve myself so much" - it took dedicated and concentrated effort to accomplish the transcivilizing. "Dostigaetsya uprazhneniem", as one Myshlaevsky used to say.

[A. Pole]

I am not a genetic russian, glory be. But I was born and grew up there, and claim sufficient knowledge of the place's sociology, culture

I did not know that genotype can "protect" you from the surrounding culture. Hmm, so did you grow without any culture?

[struwwelpeter]

KPRF

(to the melody of 'YMCA')

From eXile.ru

Old man, there's no reason to be down
I said old man, you're still kicking around
I said old man, though your country is gone
There's no need to be unhappy

Old man, there's a place you can go
I said old man, to get out of the snow
You can go there and they'll give you a flag
While you stand around some statue


It's fun to be in the KPRF
It's fun to be in the KPRF, yeah
You'll have lots of good times
With nice people your age
And you won't even have to pay

It's fun to be in the KPRF
It's fun to be in the KPRF, yeah
You can live in the past
You can get on the news
You can stick it to all the Jews

Old man, are you listening to me?
I said old man, what did you used to be?
I said old man, you can come back today
But you've got to know this one thing

Old man, there's no much left of your health
I said old man, put your teeth on the shelf
And just go there to the KPRF
And they'll give you new hope today


It's fun to be in the KPRF
It's fun to be in the KPRF, yeah
You'll have lots of good times
With nice people your age
And you won't even have to pay

It's fun to be in the KPRF
It's fun to be in the KPRF yeah
You can be on TV
You can march in parades
You can read of the good old days

Old man, I was in the same boat
I said old man, and I wasted my vote
On some asshole, who bought a villa in Spain
I thought the whole world was to blame

It's time, for you to make a stand
Even if you can no longer quite stand
There's a party, it's called the KPRF
They can bring back the past today



It's fun to be in the KPRF
It's fun to be in the KPRF, yeah
You'll have lots of good times
With nice people your age
And you won't even have to pay

KPRF
It's fun to be in the KPRF yeah
Old man, old man, there's no reason to feel down
Old man, old man, they'll get their's next time 'round 

KPRF
You just go to the KPRF yeah
Old man, old man, you could use some new shoes
Old man, old man, if don't vote you lose

KPRF... KPRF...

[DeaconBenjamin2]

in Germany ... the Communism was suppressed by Fascism

The first Communist takeover -- the Bavarian free state -- was put down by Weimar.

[GSlob]

"I did not know that genotype can "protect" you from the surrounding culture. "
There are many things that you do not know. Individualistic genotype could, and does, protect from a collectivist civilization [it serves as a kind of immunization]. Even when given the tripartite division of society's life into economics, culture, and sociology [aka civilization] you still tend to confuse the last two. Culture is the stuff for ethnologists and archaeologists - songs, dance, national cuisine and pottery shards. Civilization [aka sociology] is how people relate to one another in socially important situations, how a given society self-preserves and self-reproduces as a sociologically distinct entity, the sociological aspects of weltanschauung, national character and predominant religions. Using the material familiar to you - Pushkin belongs to the russian culture, but has nothing to do with the russian civilization. His contemporary Nicholas I has nothing to do with the russian culture, but fully belongs to the russian civilization.
In other civilizations, Sir Winston Churchill, while active in both spheres, belongs much more to the cultural [belles lettres] than to civilizational aspect - his sociological trace is negligible. The opposite can be said of Disraeli - his writings are in the dust of history, but his techniques of party management [sociology of power] live on.
And as for my culture - by now I am multilingual and truly multicultural [not in the contemporary bastardized sense of the word], civilizationally - a Westerner by conscious adoption.