Posted on 12/21/2006 1:58:44 PM PST by globalwhiplash
"Did I mention that I'm a high school dropout?
Not that it has been much of a problem: I do have a bachelor's and some other degrees. After 10th-grade, I entered Simon's Rock Early College, affiliated with Bard, where students start college work at age 15 or 16. I missed the prom, thank God, and learned to drive a little late, but otherwise I'm doing pretty well.
The report on reforming our school system just released by the New Commission on the Skills of the American Workforce urges that my experience be less unusual for American students. One of its main ideas is that mandatory schooling begin at age 3 and end after 10th-grade..."
(Excerpt) Read more at nysun.com ...
I disagree. Only the young person and their parents can make that decision. The state should not force kids into any skill or employment path. The state is not suited to maek that decision. Education is a lifelong process; schooling is not. We have no idea what a kid who looks useless at 16 might become.
Having said that, kids that refuse to take school seriously, are a danger to others, or skip to often should simply be expelled. They should be made to pay for their own schooling, or find those charitable enough to do so, but they should not remain a burden on the taxpayer.
I agree. We can start with, as John Taylor Gatto says, separating schooling from the idea of education.
I quit school at 16. Decided I didn't need it. Don't regret it. Only thing I ever wanted to do was travel. Lived in 9 countries so far. Visited dozens more. Been to a lot of places the average person (where I'm from) would've needed a university degree type job to be able to afford to travel to. Enrolled in enough open campus university along the way to learn German fluently (hey, it helped me get a German doctor wife for a while ;-).
I like culture, sociology. I like living in a place, working there at a regular job. Studying the locals and their ways. Been doing it 16 years now and never had more than a basic job. I'll never be rich. But the experiences I've had are priceless to me.
That's just me though.
Chalk that up to the legacy of American egalitarianism - we can't officially admit that there are students who are not academically inclined. Most other countries don't have a problem saying, "Uh...kid? Maybe medical school isn't for you."
Yes but who determines this....the state....no thanks.
I believe you mean a "steaming pantload"...:)
I agree.....mostly because at least the student COULD end up with a "skill" instead of heading out into the world wanting to be a pop singer and aimlessly wandering, even in college. Besides how many people really end their lives doing what they THOUGHT they would be doing when they were 17-18 years old?
I think the child/parents should, however, be FORCED into making a DECISION!
Yes, but the American myth is that everyone should go to college, so they can get a good job, and parents don't like to hear that their child just isn't college material.
If they aren't doing well in math or English, however, the chances are slim....
In the other countries, students attend different schools based on their grades and test scores. If you want to go to college, you have to work hard enough and/or be smart enough to earn admission to the college preparatory program.
I suspect that if the U.S. were to implement a similar program, some of the students who just "get by" might put forth more effort, which would be a good thing.
Second of all, what I'm trying to say is that not enough kids are steered towards vocational programs. Too many guidance counselors AND PARENTS want their kids steered towards academic programs, regardless of whether or not their kid is suited for such programs.
Frankly, being an accountant shouldn't require a degree. Lots of jobs that now require degrees didn't in the past. I'm a librarian, and the only way a person can get a job in a good library is with a Master's degree. But it's just so ridiculous. There are lots of people working as librarians without the Master's but they have lots of experience. But without the degree they won't ever earn as much money. Even though they're doing the same work.
And that's part of the problem today -- liberals tell everyone they need a degree. They denigrate hamburger flippers, but can you imagine Bubba flipping his own burgers during his daily visit to McDonald's? Not everyone needs a college degree.
I disagree. Only the young person and their parents can make that decision. The state should not force kids into any skill or employment path. The state is not suited to maek that decision. Education is a lifelong process; schooling is not. We have no idea what a kid who looks useless at 16 might become.
If parents had a lot of different choices of paths to help their children walk, it would be different. It is usually just the college track, the slut track and not much more.
Currently, the state does not, at least to the extent that foreign school systems do.
In any case, whether here or in other countries, what ultimately determines the student's path is the student - that is, the student's abilities and work habits.
In any case, whether here or in other countries, what ultimately determines the student's path is the student - that is, the student's abilities and work habits.
Yes. And they should be able to leave school after Grade 8 if they wish to pursue whatever path they choose.
I have to disagree with you about letting kids go their own way at 14, when they're hormonal time bombs with more pimples than sense. Age 16 is fine.
Perhaps a smarter route may be to give the kid a greater say in what he/she focuses on in their last years of compulsory education, and emphasizing the benefits of a vocational education.
I see a little snobbery here in immediately throwing the term 'burger flipper' applied to non university educated people. I've got a master's, but for years I made less than my brother, a self-employed carpenter (120k/yr); my next-door neighbor is an electrical contractor (100k/yr), and my brother-in-law is a union ironworker (70k/yr). The idea that a vocational education is than desirable for anyone's sullen rat of a kid is foolishness.
I have to disagree with you about letting kids go their own way at 14, when they're hormonal time bombs with more pimples than sense. Age 16 is fine
I think the option needs to be there. Some kids just dont do school well. Some kids are meant to be manual labor.
I think that's exactly my point.
However, in the U.S., partly because we base our educational tracks on "parental choice" rather than realistically looking at the students' achievement, abilities, and interests, we're still pretending to try to educate everyone for college.
Denigrating vocational education as "the slut track" doesn't help any, IMO.
If after 8 years, students aren't showing the interest or ability to go to college, I think they should be sent to apprenticeships, real jobs, or vocational training, as many other countries do.
If students who have the ability to do college work but don't work hard enough to succeed in a college preparatory curriculum later mature and decide they'd like that option, I think it should be available to them, but I think our system as currently constructed wastes the time and efforts of many teachers and students by pretending we're preparing everyone for college.
Denigrating vocational education as "the slut track" doesn't help any, IMO.
NEVER would I consider Voc the slut track. The slut track is for those kids who have no direction, are not going anywhere and have not the brains nor the ambition past their next high.
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