Bitterness in Beijing over North Korea's betrayal may mean war

The Australian ^ | December 18, 2006 | Rowan Callick

[Jet Jaguar]

THE prospects for continued peace in north Asia depend on the six-party talks on North Korea's nuclear status, which resume in Beijing today after 15 stormy political months on the Korean peninsula.

The dynamics have shifted dramatically since the last talks. When Pyongyang tested its first nuclear bomb two months ago, defying pleas from Beijing, it alienated itself from its only ally.

The extent of that alienation has been revealed in essays by China's leading strategic thinkers. The bitter sense of betrayal felt in China about its communist neighbour, on whose behalf 360,000 soldiers, mainly volunteers, died during the Korean war 53 years ago, sets the tone for the extraordinarily frank essays in China Security.

These essays, in a special publication by the Washington-based World Security Institute, discuss, often bleakly, the far-reaching implications of North Korea's nuclear program for China's foreign policy and the balance of power within China.

[Thunder90]

As I said, even the Russians have lost all love for Kim John Il, and may be planning a Lushenko style hit on him.

[Thunder90]

But, at the same time, we really DIDN'T kill the USSR, we just put it to sleep for awhile. Just look at Putin.

[jonrick46]

That is correct. One of China's strategies is to make alliances with Russia and set up client states rich in oil: Iran and the Sudan. China makes no secret it is making friends with oil rich Venezuela's dictator, Hugo Chavez. Iran, through the help of China has offered assistance in building Venezuela's nuclear technology. It is of note that China built Pakistan's nuclear capabilities and it is noteworthy that this same of process building nuclear capabilities for their clients is underway for the enemies of the United States. It is worth examining China's secretive activities in a web of interconnections with China and Russia orchestrating with their clients an effort to eliminate the United States as a world power.

China views the United States as a paper tiger in decline militarily and, the use of proxy nations against the United States would accelerate our fall as a world power.

[Joe Boucher]

War is always a terrible thing and it isn't getting any better.
When you hear of WW I and the battle of the trenches when each side lined up and charged much of the death came as a result of hand to hand. Same in our civil was and also kOrea.
It isn't like in the movies especially for those with a belief in GOD and man. You don't go home and bragm you go home and try to forget or put it out of your memory though it never leaves. It is imprinted in your being.
These kids coming home will never go back to the innocence they had when they left.
Most of these soldiers on both sides want the same thing, simply to go home to their livs and families.
YOur husband did what he had to do to simply survive. And he didn't feel like a hero for it.
He was a hero though by bringing home the bacon and raising a family.

[Joe Boucher]

You know little kim has more then one food taster working full time.

[MSF BU]

As soon as the Chinese come into the North, Seoul should move from the South; they'd be fools not to.

[RightWhale]

Posters were up all over Beijing at the time advertising for volunteers to go to the aid of their Korean cousins. Granted, this is a second-hand story from a man whose uncle was there and told him about it, but that man was upfront about every question I had about the real China. It is my impression that none of them have any reason to make stuff up even though they hold some ideas about the destiny and origin of the Chinese people that differ from mine.

[justshutupandtakeit]

You believe the Chinese didn't have millions of brainwashed zombies ready to volunteer?

[M1Tanker]

The Chinese should know that we also read Sun-Tzu.

[justshutupandtakeit]

How do you come to the conclusion that there would be no immediate counterattacks when the guns are fired at Seoul?
That is highly unlikely. In fact, any idication that forces are massing on the border would produce and immediate response.

[Mr. Silverback]

It is my impression that none of them have any reason to make stuff up even though they hold some ideas about the destiny and origin of the Chinese people that differ from mine.

Thank you for the extra info.

[Continental Soldier]

LOL

[Levante]

Good to see Communist scum kill each other.

[GOP_1900AD]

If the Chicoms take one step across the Yalu we should nuke them. But the sad thing is, we won't.

[jonrick46]

Exactly. Through the lens of Sun-Tzu and their history, their current actions become crystal clear. The Chinese are an adversary and their strategy is to pretend that they are not. I am sure the Bush intelligentsia is reading their lunch menu very closely.

[M1Tanker]

Oh, they are. Much better than Clinton's failed national security/intelligence teams ever did. According to more than a few Army MI officers I know, in the 90s it was a career killer to even suggest looking at China's actions and keeping an eye on them at the strategic intell level. Bush changed all that and now we are learning more and more.

The left, of course, accuses Bush of all sorts of nonsense about this, just as they have about the war against terrorist Islamics. The leftist (be they Dems or RINOs), state that Bush caused China to behave this way. Just as they say that Bush "caused" the terrorists to attack us and if he had just "stayed the Clinton Course", we would only be losing a few thousand civilians a year... Though they keep failing to stress that we had thousands of terror attacks from the Islamics in the 90s, but I digress.

Just because one ignores a problem and offer sacrifices to the enemy ( pro-freedom activists slaughtered in China or civilians lost to terrorists) does not mean the problem does not exist and will not get worse. Europe did the same with NAZI Germany. "They only want the Sudetenland and then they will stop". Then Europe sacrificed Czechoslovakia to the NAZIs, then Poland... Then it was too late. The left even blasted seers like Winston Churchill, who, in 1938, was shouted down in Parliament for questioning Chamberlain's continued talking to and appeasing Hitler. Chamberlain, unlike the modern left, had enough sense to support Churchill when the danger became apparent to all (about the time Belgium fell).

[ReignOfError]

If the Chicoms take one step across the Yalu we should nuke them.

In God's name, why? If the ChiComs invade North Korea, see post #47. If they get within a dozen miles of the DMZ, then let 'em fly.

[GOP_1900AD]

Because if we let them seize half of Korea, we'll be back where we were during the worst days of the Korean War. We get one chance to stop them.

[tcrlaf]

A Nuclear Japan and Taiwan ends China's hopes of becoming THE Regional Power in Asia, and they know it...

The U.S. can be easily countered, simply by playing to the Surrender element/Democrats, as they have done in the past, but a Nuclear Japan/Taiwan Club will not be so easy to overcome...

[Little Ray]

If the PRC is going to give us notice, what is the possibility of a preemptive strike on the artillery - with nukes if necessary?

Alternately, with notice, Seoul can be evacuated - what's Chia head gonna do about it - start the shooting 'cause his targets are getting away?

In truth, I think Kim Jong Il is safe until his OWN folks kill him. The South Koreans don't want unification with the North Korea - it would be an economic disaster. The Chinese don't want North Korea - there is nothing there worth having. Nobody's going to do anything about Kim 'cause it would be more painful and expensive than putting up with him, while he starves his country.