Posted on 12/17/2006 11:08:36 AM PST by blam
Solved at last: the burning mystery of Joan of Arc
France's favourite saint was martyred by her English foes, who ordered her remains to be cast into the Seine. Now scientists believe they have established the facts surrounding her execution
Alex Duval Smith in Paris
Sunday December 17, 2006
The Observer (UK)
Catholic saint, national icon and one of the world's most famous military leaders, Joan of Arc has been a subject of fascination for the French for almost six centuries. Now academics believe they are close to proving that controversial relics are actually those of the real-life Maid of Orleans. Much is unknown about the life of the warrior. Facts have often been mixed with myth and theory. But what is generally agreed is that Joan's body was burnt three times by the English and ashes from the foot of the pyre were supposedly discovered in 1867, lurking in the Paris loft of an apothecary .
French scientists, who have been studying those ashes, confirmed yesterday that a piece of cloth found among the remains may have been a fragment of Joan of Arc's gown. A new series of DNA tests of bones and tissue found among the ashes is expected to confirm that they belong to a female. These initial discoveries suggest recent controversial claims surrounding the death of Joan of Arc are wrong. One theory, put forward by Ukrainian anthropologist Sergey Gorbenko, suggested Joan was not even burnt at the stake but lived to the age of 57. Another theory is that she was a man.
But the initial discoveries by forensic anthropologist Philippe Charlier, the project's leader, indicate that the standard version of Joan of Arc's death - by being burnt as a witch by the English - appears to be right, although the research...
(Excerpt) Read more at observer.guardian.co.uk ...
Joan's siblings and entire family in fact were well documented and the family actually still lives in the same town she originated in. So they have DNA to test this against.
"They are wishing to solve this riddle but, of course they never will. "
Even more luddite than the patent dept head at the turn of the 20th century who said the office should be dismantled because everything that can be invented had been, I place you in the class of the experts who said something was as ephemeral as the thought that we could ever know what the stars are made of.
It's a problem shared by evolution-deniers, I suppose. If they can stop people from snooping around, superstition has a better chance of not being exposed for what it is.
These days a written historical record and eye witness
testimony isn't enough. There must be archeological "evidence".
Doubt everything.
Confirm nothing.
CYA Science.
God grieves.
How very sadly true.
Oh, you are so..so...scientific. You've convinced me.
Here's a good article:
Most French people devote their summers to quintessentially Gallic pursuits: celebrating Bastille Day, spending some of their mandatory eight-week vacation time, going on strike.But Sabine Herold, to put it mildly, is not your typical Frog. Herold, the 22-year-old leader of Liberté, J'ecris Ton Nom (Freedom, I Write Your Name), has in the last few months emerged as the massively popular and highly photogenic leader of -- zut! -- a burgeoning pro-market, pro-American counterculture in France. Earning comparisons to Joan of Arc, Brigitte Bardot (!), and Margaret Thatcher in the panting British press, she represents something French politics hasn't seen in years: a public figure eager to take on the country's endlessly striking unions.
It is startling to hear any Parisienne, let alone a college student, drop references to F. A. Hayek in casual conversation, describe Communists as "disgusting," or lead pro-war demonstrations in front of the American Embassy. Herold is fond of issuing heretical statements guaranteed to make any good fonctionnaire's skin crawl.
If archeological evidence is the litmus for
recorded history, then in 200 or so years,
one may actually be able to deny the holocaust
or any other inconvenient truth.
I could have told them that.
I met one like that in Home Depot last week. She was a beautiful young French girl. She said she loved the United States, loved being here with American people, and had nothing but contempt for the socialists and communists who were ruining her country.
Last year I met a very nice Russian woman there who said the same things. It gives one hope. (Of course, both of them are here instead of back home working to change things.)
Did you ask her out? French chicks are easy.
You just make it up and then go the other way.
A definite maybe.
Bone Fragment Likely Not Joan of Arc
By CHRISTIAN PANVERT
Associated Press WriterDecember 17, 2006, 3:39 AM EST
CHINON, France -- A rib bone and a piece of cloth supposedly recovered after Joan of Arc was burned at the stake are probably not hers, according to experts trying to unravel one of the mysteries surrounding the 15th century French heroine.
Eighteen experts began a series of tests six months ago on the fragments reportedly recovered from the pyre where the 19-year-old was burned for heresy.
Although the tests have not been completed, findings so far indicate there is "relatively little chance" that the remnants are hers, Philippe Charlier, the head of the team, told The Associated Press on Saturday.
Interesting thanks for posti8ng.
Oh, I see. You confirm it before you vote "maybe not".
How would you use archaeological evidence to deny the Holocaust?
Lack of archeological evidence would be used to deny the holocaust. Pictures, testimony and historical records don't seem to be convincing to these psuedo scientists.
I wouldn't go that far. There have always been Holocaust deniers and there have always been bad scientists who make theories and then proceed to make up facts to fit them.
Not all scientists are like that. If you are prepared to spend years in college to devote your life to a given discipline, it's likely because you have an intense interest in that disciline. Biblical archeology for example uses tried and true archeological techniques to find the remains of temples and other biblically significant sites 2000 years old and more. However people have always denied the existance or Christ.
In 200 years there will still be Holocaust deniers and the archeological evidence will still exist which proved it did happen that the moonbats are still loony.
Well, I agree with you. Archaeology has built an impressive body of evidence over the years, and sometimes those who don't understand science very well tend to misinterpret or exaggerate that evidence to draw some fairly unscientific conclusions.
Yep, that's the mass media for you: report it as a (possible) fat while ALSO reporting it might not be a fact.
A lot of interest in someone dead for so long. Surely, lots of other people died at the same time, ordinary people who did not hear voices, who did not take up arms, who did not wage political war, people who lived quietly and who worked hard for life and family. Clearly, if she actually heard those voices, she was every bit as insane as some have claimed. Maybe it's time to de-mystify the past and, where possible, see it the way it was.
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