Confusion hampered search for Kims

The Sunday Oregonian ^ | 12/17/2006 | PETER SLEETH, STEVE SUO, MICHELLE ROBERTS AND ELIZABETH SUH

[csvset]

failures of leadership

Yeah, like taking some backwoods " shortcut " to begin with.

Brilliant !

[Global2010]

Actually that was reported but now the agency that was supposed to lock the gate are now saying they left it open and meant to go back to lock it.

They were concerned someone might still be on it at the time and forgot to go back and lock it.

[angkor]

The story says the Kims actually got out of the car to remove rocks/boulders that were blocking the Forest Service road. It also says the gated section was never closed due to an oversight, not that the lock had been cut.

[wideminded]

The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down in the arena are the doers. They make mistakes because they try many things. ...

General David M. Shoup, 23rd Commandant, USMC

Been said before:

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt

[surfer]

Actually the Undersheriff had just lost a bitter election. Bottom line he was not happy about the election. He lost to a rival and the election was pretty dirty from what I understand.

He was demoralized and now all of sudden the county needed him but the county didn't vote for him.

I can understand how he felt but man this was no time to playing the crap.

[surfer]

Yes making the mistakes were the Kim's fault...Don't you think they have paid enough already?

You should spend some time reading about SAR - part of their creed is they never put blame on the person in trouble - it could happen to anyone at any time.

I suggest you start here:

http://www.pnwsar.org/faq.htm

[rose]

Agree, I am very tired of Monday morning quarterbacking on this and especially politics. We can look back and see our own mistakes too. The world wants instant success with everything, nothing or no one is allowed just to be who or what they are. We make mistakes, no one is perfect. Perfection is the rue of the day for Iraq, et al.

History is full of mistakes, failures, and eventual success.

[NonValueAdded]

We don't need to learn fromt he review, the rescuers are the ones who need to learn. That is why an after-action review (AAR) is ALWAYS to be held without recriminations. (Note I didn't say consequences). When an AAR is held simply to mete out punishment, the players are all too cautious the next time, spending more time doing CYA than mission. Yeah, the paper might have extracted their pound of flesh but it is the NEXT set of victims who will pay the price.

[woodbutcher]

So none of it is Kim's fault for utter stupidity?

---

If you will google Oregon SAR Budget, you will be amazed at what you will learn.

I did last week. You will not believe until you read with your own eyes how many statistics they keep. Their reports are broken down as to the rescued person's age, sex, residence by state or by county if the state is OR, aircraft, boat, etc. I think there were 75 different sets of charts or reports.

But by far the most people that got in trouble were those smart OR outdoors men that know so much about taking care of themselves.

The bottom line is that there are always going to be people in need of help. Whether it is due to their dumb decisions (and many times you would not consider it dumb had you gone through the same thought process they did at the time), people who fall and break a bone or sprain an ankle, boating or aircraft accidents, old and confused ; and because all of these will always be, SAR needs to be the best it can be.

Calling Kim dumb will not help the next person, who might be a lost child not nearly so tough, with a much shorter life expectancy under the same conditions.

[radar101]

O K.. I read it.

The whole situation was initiated because Kim didn't know where he was going, what the weather would be like when he got there, and what the environment can do to you.

This does not happen all the time.

I'm sure everyone--after spending loads of taxpayer money on training--- will be ready next time.

[Global2010]

The rocks in the road should have been a big clue.

The rugged beauty of our State of Oregon is it's natural state.
Have to respect the dangers of it's naturally rugged beauty.

I can see being an ex SF bay area resident how easy it would be to be ignorant of the wilds of Oregon.

Hopefully the news stories getting out about these errors in judgement when traveling around Oregon will save lives in the future.

Our breaking news this morning is about 7 school buses burning in Salem. They were in the bus yard.
We have alot of fires here it seems related to winter and folks trying to keep warm, space heaters ect....

[angkor]

Many mistakes here on the part of the Kims and the SAR organizers.

I've spent a lot of time in the outdoors, and I'd never go down an unknown Forest Service road at night, in bad weather, and without survival gear in the car. Especially with kids in the back seat.

The SAR problems begin with the lack of a central authority to collect and process all tips and information.

[surfer]

Any money spent on training in these situations is well worth it. I have been there and done that.

Everyone should also know that the military when involved with civilian rescue gain a ton of knowledge that has helped our soldiers in the field.

We all know the Kim's made terrible mistakes and quite frankly that whole family paid an enormous price and they will keep paying that price for the rest of their lives.

This is not an isolated incident in this area...it is a well known problem and other people have died up there because of similar circumstances.

It needs to be fixed.

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

Her direct supervisor, an undersheriff in his last week on the job, said he ignored a late-night call from her about the case because he was watching an Oregon State football game on television.

Well, I'm glad that he had his priorities straight....

[woodbutcher]

The rocks in the road should have been a big clue.

---

I have seen references to rocks in the road many times, but never did ask: Where were the rocks? How far up the road?

Everyone says they should have turned around at the rocks. I will bet that on a really dark night, snowing, a lot of snow on the ground, they could not find a safe place to turn around on that road.

I keep seeing references to how stupid Kim was and I would like to ask those who keep saying that: Have you ever been really lost?

I don't mean just momentarily confused. I mean LOST. Lost where you could not distinguish N, S, E or W. Where nothing was recognizable. So lost that when you finally came out to a road or trail you have been on before, you could not recognize it?

Unless you have been that lost, you do not understand the confusion and the thought process one goes through.

I have been. I learned how to handle that many years ago, but the first time it happens, you are in trouble.

[surfer]

In a near complete white-out situation.

That is one of the most confusing scenarios you will ever find yourself in.

The only thing worse that I have experienced is a silt-out while diving...you can't see anything. You don't even know what is up or down - you watch your air bubbles to figure that out.

[TruthWillWin]

Actually the Undersheriff had just lost a bitter election. Bottom line he was not happy about the election. He lost to a rival and the election was pretty dirty from what I understand.

Evidently Gil Gilbertson, who won a close election over Brian Anderson, had not taken office since winning the election in November? What about Dave Daniels the outgoing sheriff? Where was he when all this happened?

Sounds like the transition to the new sheriff could have been a factor.

[elfman2]

"Sorry it wasn't perfect but this look back, with 20/20 hindsight, seeking perfection, and assigning blame is out of place IMHO. "

From the first page of the story, looks more like they were blind as a bat.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

He lost to a rival and the election was pretty dirty from what I understand.

The election was very dirty and he was a lot to blame for it being that way... the same is true for the county commissioner's race the incumbent sheriff pulled out of, leaving only one leftist candidate on the ballot...

I am very suspicious of the whole dynamic involved and the local nepotism of it.

[BunnySlippers]

Bookmarking for later read.

I have a niggling feeling this could have turned out better. Hindsight, you know.