Posted on 12/14/2006 3:15:09 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
Harare, Zimbabwe (AHN) - Zimbabwe will not turn over former Former Former Ethiopian dictator Mengistu Haile Miriam, despite his conviction of genocide.
William Nhara, a spokesperson for President Robert Mugabe's government, says, "As a comrade of our struggle, Comrade Mengistu and his government played a key and commendable role during our struggle for independence and no one can dispute that."
"The judgment is an Ethiopian judgment and will not affect his status in Zimbabwe. As far as we know there is no extradition treaty between Harare and Addis Ababa."
Mengistu, who has been living in exile in Zimbabwe since he fell from power in 1991, was convicted of charges ranging from genocide, to imprisonment, homicide, and illegal confiscation of property.
Ethiopia's Federal High Court convicted Mengistu and 71 other defendants for their parts in the "Red Terror." According to the U.S. government, "The enormity of government-sponsored operations against suspected political opponents during the 'Red Terror' has defied accurate analysis and has made attempts at quantification of casualties irrelevant."
"Sources estimated that, during 1977-78, about 30,000 people had perished as a result of the Red Terror and harsh conditions in prisons, kebele jails, and concentration camps."
In other places it smells like a toxic waste dump.
Again, Mogadishu is probably the most notable example in the news right now. Other recent favorites of roving bandits and revolutionaries include Freetown, Monrovia, and Kinshasha.
You've named two West African cities.
Of course your original point was to form an analogy between Tommy Johnson and current rap lyrics about gang rape,
No, my original point referred to Robert Johnson and his songs, which go against your ridiculous claim that "Blues music transcends the brothel songs and bawdy minstrel routines that characterized its lesser forms, leaving the non-profane as its more celebrated examples today." (your #475)
the former was a fable he told about himself and the latter consists of graphic descriptions of a violent criminal act.
So ".32-20 Blues" doesn't contain "graphic descriptions of a violent criminal act"?
Since most plantations were obliterated or driven to ruin during the civil war, you'll find very few people alive today who profitted from slavery. Thank you for showing your reparationist colors though.
But many shipping and insurance companies based in the patriotic parts of America profited from slavery and were not destroyed in the War to Afford Greater Liberty to an Unstable Region.
And I'm not showing any "reparationist colors" unless you're accusing me of some thoughtcrime for mentioning the ideas that people have.
I will note though that the liberty afforded to the inhabitants of an unstable region by a colonizing power is almost always greater in comparison to the liberty afforded by the third world dictators that emerge in its place.
And I will note that it is always less than mankind's God-given rights to liberty.
Once again your hero Robert Mugabe
Unless you can provide some evidence of me praising Robert Mugabe ever, I'll advise you to stop with the personal attacks.
Not really. The swamp smell of the mississippi is pretty consistent, be it the middle of New Orleans or the middle of farm country.
You've named two West African cities.
And four African cities, seeing as I described the majority of the continent as third worldish and uncivilized. Did you not want city names after all?
No, my original point referred to Robert Johnson and his songs
"Then please explain why Robert Johnson, a man who claimed to have sold his soul to the Devil, is the "King of the Delta Blues." - zimdog, post 476
I don't see anything about songs, but I do see you misattributing Tommy Johnson's devil fable to him.
But many shipping and insurance companies based in the patriotic parts of America profited from slavery
Even so, the people who ran them when they profited from slavery are all dead. Do you plan on taxing them posthumously?
And I will note that it is always less than mankind's God-given rights to liberty.
A nice thought, except that complete unrestrained liberty does not exist in any place their is government. That makes the degree of liberty afforded the next best measure, and colonial powers in Africa afforded greater liberty than the third world dictatorships that you fawn over.
"I believe the legal reasoning cited here is that it is a crime to profit from a crime." - zimdog, 478
and again:
"But many shipping and insurance companies based in the patriotic parts of America profited from slavery and were not destroyed in the War to Afford Greater Liberty to an Unstable Region." - zimdog, 481
He also accused me of "cultural bigotry" in post #469 when I criticized rap music. Telltale signs of a leftist troll.
Maybe you've only been there on good days. It's certainly not pleasant just downstream of St Louis.
And four African cities, seeing as I described the majority of the continent as third worldish and uncivilized. Did you not want city names after all?
If you don't care to address the requests made in #479 and #476, just say so. IN any case, you claimed that most African cities were lawless. You've named four.
And now you're saying that Africa is "uncivilized" as a whole. Does that mean you think that Africans are uncivilized? Or is it the expats?
I don't see anything about songs,
Well, use your common sense. One does not become "king" of a muscial genre in a lavish Westminster coronation ceremony.
but I do see you misattributing Tommy Johnson's devil fable to him.
If I am "misattributing" it to Robert Johnson, I stand in good company with Son House. Furthemore, Robert Johnson's "Crossroad Blues" and "Hellhound on My Trail" do little to dispel such doubts.
Even so, the people who ran them when they profited from slavery are all dead. Do you plan on taxing them posthumously?
I don't plan on doing anything, but corporations exist as legal entities separate from the individuals than run them.
That makes the degree of liberty afforded the next best measure, and colonial powers in Africa afforded greater liberty than the third world dictatorships that you fawn over.
It is government without consent and that is tyranny.
And again, in the absence of evidence to prove your baseless accusations, stop with the personal attacks.
Furthermore, when you say:
When I pointed it out he began defending their position:
you reveal that you don't recognize any different between defending a position and describing a position.
I suspect there's a lot of boat traffic there. You may also be encountering air pollution that doesn't stay with the river water. "Swampy" is more or less the permanent smell of the Mississippi. By contrast, "public restroom" is more or less the permanent smell of the Niger.
If you don't care to address the requests made in #479 and #476, just say so. IN any case, you claimed that most African cities were lawless. You've named four.
You requested cities and I have responded with more in almost every subsequent post. Do you have a problem with that other than the fact that each is an example of a typical reality in third world cities that you would rather not acknowledge? Heck, let's make it 5: Abidjan in Ivory Coast.
And now you're saying that Africa is "uncivilized" as a whole.
Well, it's politics are in a mess, it has more rebellions and riots and civil wars going on than any other region in the world, it's technologically backwards, its environment is a disaster, its economy is a mess, it's an epidemiologist's nightmare, most of its governments are in debt to somebody, many of its people are starving, corruption is rampant, and it regularly depends upon the rest of the world to bail it out from all of its internal problems. So yes, I'd say that the continent of Africa is for the most part an uncivilized disaster right now.
Does that mean you think that Africans are uncivilized?
As i've said many times, I'm sure there are plenty of good, decent, civilized people from Africa. The people who run the place tend not to be though as evidenced by their basket case economies and political systems.
One does not become "king" of a muscial genre in a lavish Westminster coronation ceremony.
Don't backtrack, zim. You specifically chose to emphasize the misattributed devil anecdote as a basis of comparison with gang rape hip hop.
If I am "misattributing" it to Robert Johnson, I stand in good company with Son House.
Even in the best of company you're still wrong.
I don't plan on doing anything, but corporations exist as legal entities separate from the individuals than run them.
Even assuming that's a basis for grievance (which is dubious considering that very few corporations that old are still making the same things today that they did in 1820), the legal case is nonexistant for two reasons. Any governing statute of limitations on civil suit would have expired a century ago, and the suit itself would be moot as the aggrieved parties (i.e. the slaves) are also dead and thus cannot be compensated.
It is government without consent and that is tyranny.
There's not a government on earth today that exists by true consent. People are governed by whatever their born under, and their's no choice in that...which puts us back at my original point - in the absence of true and complete liberty, the choice is finding the greatest degree of liberty permitted. By that measure the colonial powers win over your beloved third world dictatorships.
The sad part is you actually thing you are fooling somebody...
And you can prove this how?
You requested cities and I have responded with more in almost every subsequent post.
And now you're up to 5. You're the one that claimed that most African cities were lawless hellholes. So far you've named 5, augmenting your list by one or two from time to time. You seem to be dragging your feet on this. What are you trying to hide?
You specifically chose to emphasize the misattributed devil anecdote as a basis of comparison with gang rape hip hop.
No, I asked you to explain why, if "non-profane" Blues songs comprise the genre's "more celebrated examples today", is Robert Johnson the "King of the Delta Blues." You've chosen, incorrectly, to fixate on the subordinate clause and insert it into a comparison that I never made.
Even in the best of company you're still wrong.
That's something known only to Robert Johnson, God, and the Devil. Robert Johnson is dead and you make too many mistakes to be God.
Any governing statute of limitations on civil suit would have expired a century ago, and the suit itself would be moot as the aggrieved parties (i.e. the slaves) are also dead and thus cannot be compensated.
Perhaps, although some of Germany's Nazi reparation funds go to religious institutions and charities in Israel.
By that measure the colonial powers win over your beloved third world dictatorships.
That's a false dichotomy and an apology for tyranny that mirrors Mugabe et al's claims that independent dictatorships are better than colonialism.
It's never been my intention to fool anybody. I am forced to suffer fools quite often, though.
And again, since I don't support dictatorships and certainly don't consider any of them to be "beloved", you need to stop these personal attacks.
Then state which current African countries you approve of and disapprove of. We can then determine if you support dictatorships or not by examining their governments.
By smelling it.
And now you're up to 5.
Indeed. Let's make it 6 with Yamousoukro.
No, I asked you to explain why, if "non-profane" Blues songs comprise the genre's "more celebrated examples today", is Robert Johnson the "King of the Delta Blues."
That's not what your quote said: "Then please explain why Robert Johnson, a man who claimed to have sold his soul to the Devil, is the "King of the Delta Blues."
That's something known only to Robert Johnson, God, and the Devil.
Nonetheless, you've yet to produce any information that the story is anything other than an apocryphal misattribution based on a similar name.
Put another way, Tommy Johnson is widely known to have told a fable about himself getting a guitar for his soul. There's no record of Robert Johnson ever making that claim though.
Perhaps, although some of Germany's Nazi reparation funds go to religious institutions and charities in Israel.
And there are holocaust survivors living in Israel today. There aren't any ex-slaves living in the U.S.
That's a false dichotomy
Unless you can name a purely libertarian government in existence today, I'll venture to say that it is not.
And can I ask you to state which African countries you approve of and disapprove of? Then we can determine if you support democracy or not.
And how often do you smell the Niger in order to arrive at this conclusion?
Indeed. Let's make it 6 with Yamousoukro.
Dragging your feet still, aren't you?
That's not what your quote said: "Then please explain why Robert Johnson, a man who claimed to have sold his soul to the Devil, is the "King of the Delta Blues."
And when you extract the subordinate clause, you get "Then please explain why Robert Johnson is the "King of the Delta Blues."" I'm not ruling out a Westminster coronation. Or even a Tupelo coronation, if such existed.
Nonetheless, you've yet to produce any information that the story is anything other than an apocryphal misattribution based on a similar name.
A widely-known apocryphal tale about a man who sang about crossroads and hell hounds.
There's no record of Robert Johnson ever making that claim though.
A lot of Robert Johnson's life is poorly documented. For example, when was he born?
Unless you can name a purely libertarian government in existence today, I'll venture to say that it is not.
I don't need to name a purely libertarian government. I only need to name a state that is neither a colony nor a dictatorship.
There's no need to make that determination cause I'll tell you outright. Being a liberty-minded conservative rather than one of the egalitarian populists that Tocqueville warned us about, I've never expressed any particular affection for democracy. In its better forms, I view it with indifference so long as it functions to sustain liberty. At its worst, I view it as nothing more than tyrannical mob rule. In the case of Africa, I tend to view most of the countries that call themselves democracies as something closer to the latter category.
So now that that's clear it's your turn. Let's hear you be a little less ambiguous about what regimes you approve of in Africa. In fact, let's hear a little less ambiguity about your politics in general. I'm honestly curious as to whether you have a single specific conservative policy stance on much of anything.
Yes, apparently you think that Africans can't govern themselves. That is clear.
Let's hear you be a little less ambiguous about what regimes you approve of in Africa.
Ghana, Senegal, Mali, Tanzania, South Africa, and (God willing) Liberia and Sierra Leone soon.
I'm honestly curious as to whether you have a single specific conservative policy stance on much of anything.
Individual rights, personal responsibility, small government, administratrive and fiscal responsibility, morality. I've said this before. To you.
I find it laughable that you claim to be a "liberty-minded conservative" and yet you support colonial tyranny.
Given that "public bathroom smell" is pretty noxious and unforgettable, I suppose once is plenty to remember.
Dragging your feet still, aren't you?
Nah. Just taunting you for fun. Al-Fashir makes 7.
And when you extract the subordinate clause
Except that the subordinate clause was placed in there intentionally. Extracting it alters what you intended to emphasize.
A lot of Robert Johnson's life is poorly documented.
Certainly. But that's still no basis to assume that he talked about selling his soul to the devil simply because he has a similar name to another guitar player who told that story.
I don't need to name a purely libertarian government. I only need to name a state that is neither a colony nor a dictatorship.
And why would that state fall somewhere on the same scale of liberty that colonies and dictatorships do?
Who says it's always tyranny? Zimbabwe was a lot better off and a lot more free half a century ago than it is today.
Given the sparsity of evidence to the contrary, it's a fair assessment of the present state of Africa.
Individual rights, personal responsibility, small government, administratrive and fiscal responsibility, morality.
Those are vague platitudes. I asked for a single specific conservative policy stance.
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