Posted on 12/14/2006 3:15:09 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
Harare, Zimbabwe (AHN) - Zimbabwe will not turn over former Former Former Ethiopian dictator Mengistu Haile Miriam, despite his conviction of genocide.
William Nhara, a spokesperson for President Robert Mugabe's government, says, "As a comrade of our struggle, Comrade Mengistu and his government played a key and commendable role during our struggle for independence and no one can dispute that."
"The judgment is an Ethiopian judgment and will not affect his status in Zimbabwe. As far as we know there is no extradition treaty between Harare and Addis Ababa."
Mengistu, who has been living in exile in Zimbabwe since he fell from power in 1991, was convicted of charges ranging from genocide, to imprisonment, homicide, and illegal confiscation of property.
Ethiopia's Federal High Court convicted Mengistu and 71 other defendants for their parts in the "Red Terror." According to the U.S. government, "The enormity of government-sponsored operations against suspected political opponents during the 'Red Terror' has defied accurate analysis and has made attempts at quantification of casualties irrelevant."
"Sources estimated that, during 1977-78, about 30,000 people had perished as a result of the Red Terror and harsh conditions in prisons, kebele jails, and concentration camps."
No. Only Africa, and you've given no reason in your entire history on FR to believe that you come from any other place than a third world craphole in Africa.
The cities are where the population is most concentrated. With the possible exception of Nigeria, the majority of West Africans do not live in these large cities.
And their refuse, as the world's biggest toilet aka the Niger River indicates, spills across entire countries.
This typed by someone downstream from Minneapolis, Chicago, Saint Louis and Memphis.
What differentiates the website you gave from any other amateur webblog, geocities, or myspace posting?
First of all, it's not "amateur": It's the website of a respected journal of African history and culture. But since you don't seem to accept anything African as worthy of your consideration, that probably won't convince you.
Anybody can throw out a book title or author.
But nothing specific from it until I hounded you about it for 2 weeks, the entirity of which you vigorously resisted.
You would have to prove that. I gave you numbers. You wouldn't accept them because they came from an African journal whose website you didn't find aesthetically pleasing. I then gave you the information of a book that covered the subject in greater depth. When you refused to read it, I found the book myself and typed out the figures for to satisfy your petulant demands.
And anybody can check that book, especially when the author, title and publication information have been given.
Then, as now, you exhibited overt hostility toward meeting that burden.
I've become annoyed by your refusal to accept facts that do not support your skewed vision of the past.
Perhaps you haven't read my history on FR. Or if you did, you've read it like you read the history of World War II, ignoring whatever does not fit your worldview.
I've read more than enough. You post on threads about Africa, mahometans, and African mahometans with comparatively little on any major conservative political issue. There is certainly nothing on here to make anyone think you are anything other than an advocate of Islam and various sundry themes from third world craphole countries.
You've also evidently been warned and suspended for misbehavior more than once.
Enough with the personal attacks. Argue the issues. Future violations will result in suspension(s) or banning
You didn't seem to catch all the times I talked about my fellow Americans.
You've also evidently been warned and suspended for misbehavior more than once.
Warned, yes. Suspended, no.
And now you've been warned. FYI -- You'll note that many people who stubbornly tangled with me eventually veered from the issues to resort to personal attacks and got up banned.
Now, if there are any new issues you'd like to discuss, please let me know.
Yet enough of them do for the refuse to be a major problem.
This typed by someone downstream from Minneapolis, Chicago, Saint Louis and Memphis.
Indeed, and as dirty as Big Muddy happens to be from both natural and human causes, the risk of raw sewage floating by is tiny compared to just about any major river in the non-civilized parts of the world. Over hear in the states we run out sewage through closed lines and into treatment plants that provide sanitation. Your kin simply dump it into the ally, which it follows into the street, then stream, then river, then back into the drinking supply. It's one of the reasons people travelling to Africa normally take vaccines while people travelling to any city on the Mississippi do not have to.
First of all, it's not "amateur": It's the website of a respected journal of African history and culture.
So respected that it devotes entire issues to the "culture" of hip hop music? http://www.africultures.com/anglais/list_article_E.asp#21
Remember - you said to look at their content. Well I'm looking at their content right now and I see a bunch of poorly translated PC-laden pseudointellectual Afrocentric left wing drivel...which would make it the perfect magazine for you!
If you intend that as a subtle threat, zimdog, just keep in mind that anybody can summon the admin moderator at any time when you misbehave.
I've attempted to discuss issues all along, yet your typical response invariably entails an attack on my integrity followed by a willfull misrepresentation of my position. But as I indicated earlier, I've grown bored of this particular discussion and see little to be gained from responding to circuitous arguments. Good day.
A refuse problem does not make a country a latrine.
Indeed, and as dirty as Big Muddy happens to be from both natural and human causes, the risk of raw sewage floating by is tiny compared to just about any major river in the non-civilized parts of the world.
Leaving aside for the moment your implication that Africa is not civilized (in ironic contradiction to your earlier claim that most Africans live in cities), how safe is it to swim in the lower Mississippi?
So respected that it devotes entire issues to the "culture" of hip hop music?
Or as earlier cultural bigotry would have it:: "So respected that it devotes entire issues to the "culture" of jazz?"
Well I'm looking at their content right now and I see a bunch of poorly translated PC-laden pseudointellectual Afrocentric left wing drivel...
There may be problems with some of Africultures's translations, but they are better than those of the average "clean website of a small town U.S. paper." As for the charges of PC and pseudointellectuality, you would have to prove those. As for Afrocentrism, you should expect a publication about African history and culture to place African history and culture at the center of its publications.
I don't threaten people. I just wanted to let you know I have engaged in long debates with people who, after failing to muster facts to support their arguments, turned to ad hominem attacks.
I've attempted to discuss issues all along, yet your typical response invariably entails an attack on my integrity followed by a willfull misrepresentation of my position.
Well, I don't agree with this characterization, and I certainly don't appreciate the unfounded allegation that I somehow evaded discussing the issues. In any case, the exchange is available for scrutiny by any interested party.
It certainly makes it look like a latrine and smell like a latrine. Being inclined to empiricism in these matters, I will have to take appearance and smell as evidence of their latrine condition.
Leaving aside for the moment your implication that Africa is not civilized (in ironic contradiction to your earlier claim that most Africans live in cities)
You presume incorrectly that cities inherently civilized.
how safe is it to swim in the lower Mississippi?
Safer than just about anywhere in the Niger.
Or as earlier cultural bigotry would have it:: "So respected that it devotes entire issues to the "culture" of jazz?"
Strange. I don't recall any mainstream jazz musician who glorified the great African hip-hop "cultural" contributions of rape and gang shootouts in his music.
As for the charges of PC and pseudointellectuality, you would have to prove those.
Not difficult. It appears throughout the magazines subject matter - hip hop music, slavery reparations, whining about colonial imperialism, whining about the West, whining about the proletariat's "plight," whining about Mumia's plight - and all of it wrapped up in badly translated marxist jargon. It's just the type of thing you'd expect to see in a Nation of Islam bookstore.
Then to claim that the country was a latrine, you would have to show that an entire country looked and smelled like a latrine.
You presume incorrectly that cities inherently civilized.
In that cities are organized communities with governments and laws, I would say that they are inherently civilized in the Latin sense of the word.
Safer than just about anywhere in the Niger.
Perhaps you'd like to take a dip on a lazy, humid, August day?
I don't recall any mainstream jazz musician who glorified the great African hip-hop "cultural" contributions of rape and gang shootouts in his music.
It's actually more common in the Delta blues of the 1920s. Perhaps you can denigrate Mississippi "culture" now.
[...]slavery reparations, whining about colonial imperialism[...]
If you don't think that the crime of slavery should go unpunished, or that colonialism is preferable to freedom, perhaps you should frequent a different forum. This is a site for conservatives who believe in the rule of law and in a higher law and in the God-given right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
and all of it wrapped up in badly translated marxist jargon.
To paraphrase Harvey Mansfield: If you think this is a bad translation, give us a better one.
I decided to spot-check some of your allegations. Where is this "whining" located?
Oops. If you do think that the crime of slavery should go unpunished.
No, just a substantive and representative sample to indicate its prevalence. The Niger river and its street gutter tributaries suffice for that purpose.
In that cities are organized communities with governments and laws
It's a very dubious assertion in many african cities that (1) they are organized, (2) they have functioning governments, and (3) they operate under a rule of law. More often than not its a clutter of haphazard slum construction with no clear functioning authority and uncontrolled roving bandits, gangs, and militias staking out turf by way of coercion and intimidation...in other words the very antithesis of civilization. Simply having a bunch of people in the same place doesn't make it civilized. Without law, it only makes it crowded and smelly.
I would say that they are inherently civilized in the Latin sense of the word.
Which would mean that Africa unfortunately learned very little from its encounter with Latin society.
It's actually more common in the Delta blues of the 1920s. Perhaps you can denigrate Mississippi "culture" now.
Blues music transcends the brothel songs and bawdy minstrel routines that characterized its lesser forms, leaving the non-profane as its more celebrated examples today. The same cannot be said of your favored form of atonal expression, as mainstream hip-hop and gang rape are largely synonymous.
If you don't think that the crime of slavery should go unpunished
It's perpetrators in the civilized world have been dead for over 100 years now. Are you advocating digging up corpses and subjecting them to indigenous African "religious" rituals?
or that colonialism is preferable to freedom
If a particular colony is incapable of governing itself, then yes. Robert Mugabe has more than amply demonstrated that to be the case.
To paraphrase Harvey Mansfield: If you think this is a bad translation, give us a better one.
Thanks but no thanks. What I see of the articles provided does not indicate that their quality or content is deserving of any further energy or attention.
By this logic, you could assert that Mississippi is a toxic waste dump.
It's a very dubious assertion in many african cities that (1) they are organized, (2) they have functioning governments, and (3) they operate under a rule of law.
Which cities, specifically?
. More often than not its a clutter of haphazard slum construction with no clear functioning authority and uncontrolled roving bandits, gangs, and militias staking out turf by way of coercion and intimidation...in other words the very antithesis of civilization.
Could you provide some factual evidence supporting your claim that African cities -- specifically cities in West Africa, our topic of discussion -- are "more often than not" organized in this manner?
Which would mean that Africa unfortunately learned very little from its encounter with Latin society.
?
Blues music transcends the brothel songs and bawdy minstrel routines that characterized its lesser forms, leaving the non-profane as its more celebrated examples today.
Then please explain why Robert Johnson, a man who claimed to have sold his soul to the Devil, is the "King of the Delta Blues."
as mainstream hip-hop and gang rape are largely synonymous.
Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word "synonymous".
Are you advocating digging up corpses and subjecting them to indigenous African "religious" rituals?
I'm saying that slavery was a crime. Apparently you think it's a thoughtcrime for a magazine to publicly consider how this crime might be rectified.
If a particular colony is incapable of governing itself, then yes.
And whose decision would that be?
What I see of the articles provided does not indicate that their quality or content is deserving of any further energy or attention.
It reads much better in French.
Not really. The level of toxins in 1st world rivers seldom compare to those in 3rd world rivers.
Which cities, specifically?
Virtually any in the proximity of a civil war or sectarian violence. Mogadishu comes to mind as a notable example from the recent news.
Then please explain why Robert Johnson, a man who claimed to have sold his soul to the Devil, is the "King of the Delta Blues."
That was Tommy Johnson. You have your musicians confused.
I'm saying that slavery was a crime. Apparently you think it's a thoughtcrime for a magazine to publicly consider how this crime might be rectified.
Remind me again exactly where I suggested your marxist afro-rag should be prosecuted for criminal thought. In the meantime I'll note once again that the slaveowners have all been dead for over a century, which begs the question once again: what are you going to do to punish them?
And whose decision would that be?
The colonial power that has the resources and interest to come in and clean up the place.
It looks and smells like a toxic waste dump in places, so...
Virtually any in the proximity of a civil war or sectarian violence. . Mogadishu comes to mind as a notable example from the recent news.
Which cities, specifically? You have suggested that most African cities are lawless.
That was Tommy Johnson. You have your musicians confused.
The story about Johnson is anecdotally attributed to him, but this is beside the point. Are you denying Robert Johnson's recordings are not among the genre's "more celebrated examples"?
I'll note once again that the slaveowners have all been dead for over a century, which begs the question once again: what are you going to do to punish them?
I believe the legal reasoning cited here is that it is a crime to profit from a crime.
The colonial power that has the resources and interest to come in and clean up the place.
So basically, you don't believe that people have the inalienable right to liberty. Interesting.
And I asked for West African cities specifically.
Actually the Mississippi is a fairly consistent brackish mud color along its navigable length, the majority of this consisting of silt. The smell is more like a swamp.
Which cities, specifically? You have suggested that most African cities are lawless.
Again, Mogadishu is probably the most notable example in the news right now. Other recent favorites of roving bandits and revolutionaries include Freetown, Monrovia, and Kinshasha.
The story about Johnson is anecdotally attributed to him,
No. Tommy Johnson was the one who often jokingly claimed he traded his soul to the devil for his guitar. Any association of it with Robert was by mistake of his shared last name with Tommy. Of course your original point was to form an analogy between Tommy Johnson and current rap lyrics about gang rape, which is an absurd comparison considering that the former was a fable he told about himself and the latter consists of graphic descriptions of a violent criminal act.
I believe the legal reasoning cited here is that it is a crime to profit from a crime.
Since most plantations were obliterated or driven to ruin during the civil war, you'll find very few people alive today who profitted from slavery. Thank you for showing your reparationist colors though.
So basically, you don't believe that people have the inalienable right to liberty.
Never said anything of the sort. I will note though that the liberty afforded to the inhabitants of an unstable region by a colonizing power is almost always greater in comparison to the liberty afforded by the third world dictators that emerge in its place. Once again your hero Robert Mugabe is a clear example of why this is so.
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