Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Interesting viewpoint from someone inside Islamic culture. Maybe we should listen?
1 posted on 12/03/2006 6:44:01 PM PST by Lorianne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: Lorianne

If it's really democracy it can't be imposed for long since the people will get rid of it.


2 posted on 12/03/2006 6:46:25 PM PST by cripplecreek (If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne

I believe in two things, freedom and democracy. Freedom is a prerequisite for democracy.


3 posted on 12/03/2006 6:53:41 PM PST by popdonnelly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne

It's largely imposed on us right here at home. There are many who would desire a different system, whether radical or not. But the only choice we are given is elections that are driven by money and sound-bites.

That's our "democracy". Which is still far preferable to losing one's head, but not exactly what was envisioned after the Revolutionary War.


4 posted on 12/03/2006 6:54:09 PM PST by SteveMcKing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne

In the hearts and minds of all God's children exists a desire to practice "Free Will". That is what the "Constitution" teaches. For the first time in recorded history people of one nation are willing to die so that the people of another nation can have such freedom. G W Bush did that!


5 posted on 12/03/2006 7:00:30 PM PST by Blake#1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne

Interesting argument, I'm afraid. The problem certainly seems to be Islam.

There is one minor--or maybe not so minor--point that I'd question in this article, and in fact it only makes his argument more persuasive. The author translates "Darul Islam" as "house of peace." I wonder if "house of submission" isn't more accurate.

There's the nub of it. Islam demands submission to the absolute decrees an arbitrary God and submission to arbitrary rulers who claim authority in Allah's name. There is no such thing as free will, and therefore no possibility of political freedom.


8 posted on 12/03/2006 7:04:41 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne

If democracy is imposed than its not democracy...


15 posted on 12/03/2006 7:57:25 PM PST by lndrvr1972
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne

I don't think the problem with Iraq or Afghanistan is anything religious, I think it's our weak attempts at fighting a "civilized" war. We're afraid to buck up and do what it really takes to win, plus you have the constant demoralization heaped on by the left coupled with the public's general unwillingness to back the effort and make sacrifices.

I think failure is not an option...and this fact is REALLY going to come back and hit us hard in the coming years.


17 posted on 12/03/2006 8:06:46 PM PST by pcottraux (It's pronounced "P. Coe-troe.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne

Our limited constitutional republic has maximum freedom for the individual. Freedom is man's greatest concept. Under its conceptual umbrella all other concepts are welcome. It is the only concept that buttresses the reality of individual life.

We are witnessing the greatest anti-truth, anti-freedom, anti-individual, anti-life collective in the history of civilization.


20 posted on 12/03/2006 8:12:20 PM PST by PGalt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne

Twelve million purple-fingered Iraqis were not forced to vote. They did, in spite of the threats to their life, because they want democracy. It was not forced on them.


23 posted on 12/03/2006 8:48:25 PM PST by advance_copy (Stand for life, or nothing at all)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne

We should have listened to Ann Coulter when she said what we need to do is go in and convert them all to Christianity.


28 posted on 12/03/2006 8:57:44 PM PST by MovementConservative (Getting back to principled conservatism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne
I understand what the author is saying and have a great deal of sympathy for his point of view. He may yet prove to be right, and perhaps this is only splitting hairs, but I think not. It is simply this - we are not "imposing" a democracy on Iraq. We have created a set of conditions under which they may fight for it - and they are now, and are going to have to continue to do so - with some decent prospect of success.

The Iraqis are not passive recipients of this political largesse, they have paid dearly for it. It is an incredibly difficult challenge given the autocratic antecedents of the country, the tribal grass-roots organization, and the broad and vicious historical oppression of Kurd and Shi'a by Sunni. It's impossible, absurd - I can certainly understand why so many very knowledgable people find it unlikely.

But it hasn't failed yet. And if it doesn't it won't be because the U.S. gave anything to anybody, it will be because the Iraqis earned it. There is no other route to freedom, there is no other route to democracy. IMHO.

33 posted on 12/03/2006 9:05:20 PM PST by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne
Those who argue that democracy cannot be imposed from foreign interventions are obviously wrong if considered the interventions in Japan, Italy and Germany

Interventions? I do believe those countries either attacked us first (Japan) or declared war on us first (Germany and Italy). Those were not interventions.

Germany and Italy were western countries with some fairly recent experience with representative government. Japan had no such experience at all, and they revered their previous head of state as a God, something even the Muslims do not do, they don't even consider their religious leaders to be Gods.

If it can work in Japan, it can work in a Muslim country.

Of course we might have to pound then all into rubble first, as we had to with Germany and Japan, (The Italians were not really fighters, just lovers, and took the hint as early as they could)

38 posted on 12/03/2006 9:34:42 PM PST by El Gato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne

Author is an EX-muslim

http://www.islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm


43 posted on 12/03/2006 10:38:34 PM PST by truth_seeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Lorianne

Many of these Nations also have Guild culture, similar to our unions {in there early days}. Sunni Butchers understand their Shea rivals. Same for Bakers, Oil Workers, Weavers, etc. In some areas Even the Beggers have Guild!

Perhaps the next Muslim Republic should have Guild based Senate. I doubt that the Cleric Guild would get more than 1 Seat in a 100 seat Senate.

Read your Heinlein Juveniles, again.


45 posted on 12/03/2006 11:02:01 PM PST by PizzaDriver (an heinleinian/libertarian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson