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Home prices drop 17 percent [Florida]
Herald Tribune ^ | 11/29/2006 | Stephen Frater and Michael Pollick

Posted on 11/29/2006 6:44:22 PM PST by ex-Texan

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To: aft_lizard
If it was valued at $400K when the loan was taken out and the lender hasn't called the loan because value is $200K, and you make enough to pay the payments and live there, just what's the problem? If it was me, the first thing I'd be doing is getting on the taxman's ass and get him to drop my valuation too.

If on the other hand you were taking advantage of investment potential and NEED to sell the house at a higher-than-payed-for price, then you're screwed and might just have well bought a buttload of penny stocks...

341 posted on 12/04/2006 4:33:21 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: Toddsterpatriot
... assuming that rates drop from 5% to 1%, instantly, is a bond trader going to buy a 5% bond if the "real" inflation rate is 8.5%?

Absolutely!

A $100k 1-yr bond sells for $95k when rates are 5%.  I buy it, the next day rates go to 1% and a $100k 1-yr bond is now worth $99k, which is what I sell my bond for, and I pocket a cool $4k.  In one day I've picked up a 4% return, which translates to an annual rate of 166,504,861.4%.   OK, after 8.5% inflation I'm only getting a 166,504,852.9% rate of return but hey, it's a living.

342 posted on 12/04/2006 4:55:54 AM PST by expat_panama
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To: Alia; GodGunsGuts
"... how many understand the components of the CPI, and alternate goods. If they did, they've have a far better understanding of stocks, inflation, valuation, and economic policy."

Aw hell, it ain't complicated at all.

People here talk about what "TRUE" inflation is, or what the Federal Reserve says it is, actually anybody can say inflation is whatever they want it to be because it all depends on what we're working with.    Most of us think of inflation as why things cost more when we try to buy them.  If the cost of everything we buy doubles, then our index (symbol, sign, indicator, mark, pointer) just went from 1 to 2.  This 'index' is for prices of what we consume --our CPI.  

the CPI is just plain irrelevant.  Example: don't ever tell your boss that you want a raise because the CPI went up because he'll just say 'yeah, life is not fair'.  Tell him that the ECI (Employment Cost Index) just went up and it'll be your turn to tell him that 'life is not fair'.

The CPI can't be right or wrong because in a market economy prices are what they are --we just got to deal with it.  OK, we can argue about who's buying what and when (more frequently asked questions about the CPI here) but it don't matter because sometimes the CPI is just plain irrelevant.  

Fine, we got inflation for wages and for consumer prices.  If we want inflation for everything --the entire economy -- we can do that too.  The guys that measure the entire gdp (the BEA) have their own private index and they call it the Gross domestic product (GDP) price index and it's got prices of personal consumption expenditures (PCE), gross private domestic investment, net exports of goods and services, and government consumption expenditures and gross investment and it's not to be confused with the gross domestic purchases price index in that it ignores price changes in imports of goods and services and includes price changes in exports of goods and services.

Now, isn't that simple?

343 posted on 12/04/2006 6:02:22 AM PST by expat_panama
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To: expat_panama
A $100k 1-yr bond sells for $95k when rates are 5%. I buy it, the next day rates go to 1% and a $100k 1-yr bond is now worth $99k, which is what I sell my bond for, and I pocket a cool $4k.

No, no, no! It sells for $100k and rises to $104k.

In one day I've picked up a 4% return, which translates to an annual rate of 166,504,861.4%.

Your example is a 4.2% return, mine is a 4.0% return, 164,880,328.5% annual return, funny man!

344 posted on 12/04/2006 7:19:33 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with EPI, you're not a conservative!)
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To: GodGunsGuts

Poor illiterate 0TGigi.


345 posted on 12/04/2006 7:51:19 AM PST by Petronski (I just love that woman.)
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To: GodGunsGuts
Quit calling in the posse!


346 posted on 12/04/2006 8:00:55 AM PST by Petronski (I just love that woman.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
It sells for $100k...

Unless it's a US savings bond and the nominal amount is at maturity-- I remember getting all turned around with this in Econ 1A, having to remember that bond values go up when interest rates go down.

Not exactly intuitive...

347 posted on 12/04/2006 8:16:04 AM PST by expat_panama
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To: expat_panama
T-Bills are issued at a discount and mature at par, no interest payments. Bonds mature at par, pay interest twice a year and can sell above or below par.
348 posted on 12/04/2006 8:20:26 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with EPI, you're not a conservative!)
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To: Toddsterpatriot
I believe you; I think I'll take a break and relax with something easy like say, quantum physics.
349 posted on 12/04/2006 8:37:52 AM PST by expat_panama
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To: ex-Texan

Well, that's what happens in investor driven markets. The markets get over heated, then crowded, and then investors can't find renters, then the prices correct themselves.


350 posted on 12/04/2006 9:02:05 AM PST by Eva
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To: Eva
Well, that's what happens in investor driven markets. The markets get over heated, then crowded, and then investors can't find renters, then the prices correct themselves.

You make it sound so logical. Ex-Tex thinks it is the result of a conspiracy by home builders, realtors, lenders and an evil cabal of their enablers.

351 posted on 12/04/2006 9:05:16 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with EPI, you're not a conservative!)
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To: Petronski
Here's your chance to make a point (and back it up), Pedro.

FWIW you have my vote.

352 posted on 12/04/2006 11:10:31 AM PST by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: martin_fierro

Thank yoooooo. Thank you very much.


353 posted on 12/04/2006 11:27:57 AM PST by Petronski (I just love that woman.)
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To: martin_fierro; Petronski

Martin, is this you?

354 posted on 12/04/2006 12:10:56 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (If you agree with EPI, you're not a conservative!)
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To: Petronski; martin_fierro

GGG makes me miss DebtandDelusion and his darn asians.


355 posted on 12/04/2006 12:13:09 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: expat_panama

You 'splained that perfectly. :) A lovely and clear and cogent tutorial on FR. Bravo, expat_panama!


356 posted on 12/04/2006 2:24:47 PM PST by Alia
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To: Toddsterpatriot
That's a Dynomite photo, ToddsterPatriot.

Ta-dum. :)

357 posted on 12/04/2006 2:27:46 PM PST by Alia
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To: ex-Texan

2007 is going to be very very ugly for housing.


358 posted on 12/04/2006 2:31:00 PM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: nmh

don't forget the pain of paying the hurricane insurance on a $400K home you cant sell for 4200K.


359 posted on 12/04/2006 2:32:00 PM PST by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestu s globus, inflammare animos)
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To: finnman69
2007 is going to be very very ugly for housing.

It will be for the stupid America-bashers that are selling --but those are the same idiots who were bad-mouthing the US last year about how housing costs were supposed to be out of the reach of the little guy.  

For me it's going to be a terrific housing market-- I'll be buying back what I sold last year.

360 posted on 12/04/2006 3:34:58 PM PST by expat_panama
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