10 SECONDS OF HELL IN QUEENS (Driver refuses officer's order to halt)

NY Post ^ | 11/27/2006 | Murray Weiss

[RGSpincich]

-snip-

Dramatic new details of the deadly mayhem include the undercover cop at one point climbing onto the hood of Bell's car - his gun drawn and his police shield around his neck - screaming, "Police! Turn off your car! Let me see your hands!" said sources who talked to some of the cops involved in the shooting.

When Bell then tried to run down the plainclothes officer - twice - the cop began shooting, with some of his 11 bullets piercing the rear window of the man's Nissan Altima, the sources said. -snip-

[BamaGirl]

Thank you!

[Kirkwood]

Automobiles are considered a weapon when used to purposely run down or to threaten to run down someone.

[TigersEye]

Anyone who carries a gun (cop or civilian) should live by the rule 'if you pull your gun you shoot it, when you shoot your gun you shoot to kill.' If you think any other way about it you're a fool and shouldn't carry a gun.

[Ford4000]

It was not a reality show- it was reality.

[Ford4000]

Come off it. Resisting arrest is not and never has been an excuse to shoot - only if it puts the officers or someone elses life at risk. This is why officers carry non-lethal weapons.

My disapproval of the police shooting fleeing suspects in the back does not make me a libertarian. It is stupid, wrong and illegal.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Hey Bro, how you been? Nice post.

Did you happen to catch that weasel Geraldo on Hannity and Colmes last night? After going on a knee jerk, dilusional, grandiose tirade he actually had the nerve to say he likes cops.

My wife gave me 'the look' when I used a completely appropriate 4 letter word regarding Geraldo.

Hannity tried to pin him down with comments about Sharpton and the Tawana Brawley incident. Geraldo said that we shouldn't judge race baiter Al by one mistake he made.

I was livid.

[Kenny Bunk]

if he did nothing, he would be held responsible for not acting on the information he had.

Good way to put it. As it developed, he went with "Answer A,"
Now hindsight tells us the correct response was "Answer B." Ort maybe even "None of the above."
Comes with the territory. Bottom line, though: 50 rounds downrange, none of which hit the vehicle (!) just ain't right.

[jjm2111]

As a police officer, why would you put yourself in FRONT of a car full of suspected skells, except to perhaps save innocents?

Why did he jump on the hood, of all things?

Why did the undercover officer try to make an arrest? Aren't uniforms supposed to make the arrests?

[jjm2111]

"Does your vocabulary extend beyond these few words? Or is this how you order a cup of coffee?"

No it's how I respond to comments like this:

Please leave the country now. Your brain fart has made you incapable of rational thought. We cannot allow you to co-exist with us in this society. I suggest you flee to a strip club in Queeens until 4 am. Then make your run for it!

Come to think of it, you responded to my comments about the article with gems like this:

Say, JJM2111 baby, and Or is that minor fact beyond your apparently limited comprehension?

I respond to personal insults with the same. In the first sentence the "We cannot allow you to co-exist with us in this society." almsot sounds threatening. Too bad. My original post was to the article and some people feel that demeaning my intelligence is more relevant than debating the points.

Are you going to respond and debate the points of the article or are you going to be a hit-and-run poster like Doc Savage?

[Mad Dawg]

Thank you, sister! Stay safe and give praise!

[Mad Dawg]

... 50 rounds downrange, none of which hit the vehicle (!) ...

Are we taking about the same story here? Maybe it would be good to read it again before we render a verdict on the incompetence of the cops.

[Mad Dawg]

See around here, we just had two guys arrested for doing just that. Announcing they were police officers, flashing some sort of badge and then raping women.

Okay. So make a PRACTICAL, positive proposal. It's easy to find fault. Here in the land of the real no plan, no response in an emergency is perfect.

So what plan do YOU like? Bear in mind: there will be troops, equipment, time invovled with everything and the higher-ups have this tendency to try to save money to spend on their pet projects -- and after Rudy, the NYPD is nobody's pet.

[Mad Dawg]

Dude!

I live out here in dial-up and no cable land, and a satellite dish would just be lightning bait. So I am spared Geraldo in nearly all his appearances.

So a protracted campaign to defame a bunch of white guys is a "mistake". And Race Baiter Al shouldn't be judged for it?

You know, that's the way I feel about Mussolini. Poor guy, he just kind of got caught up in Hitler's charisma, know what I mean? The cute litle moustache, the goose-stepping thing, the jack boots. You can see how it cast its spell on Benito. So, well, it was entirely predictable. He involves himself and his country in fearsome oppression, injustice, and brutality -- but, hey, we shouldn't judge him on the basis of one mistake .....

Cut me a huge slice of break, please.

Stay safe, give thanks, in all things rejoice ... (Advice I personally intend to follow for at least five minutes, until I settle back down into my usual grouchiness....)

[jjm2111]

Rudy gave the cops 0,0,3, and 6 percent raises. They didn't all love him. However, he didn't sell the NYPD out like Bloomberg does.

[edcoil]

Latest update was 3 police. One officer fired 31 shots himself. There is a re-load or two in there someplace.

[photodawg]

Come off it. Resisting arrest is not and never has been an excuse to shoot - only if it puts the officers or someone elses life at risk. This is why officers carry non-lethal weapons.
My disapproval of the police shooting fleeing suspects in the back does not make me a libertarian. It is stupid, wrong and illegal.


''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Resisting arrest can take many forms. In this case it was using an escape vehicle as a weapon and putting the arresting officers and the passengers of the car in imminent danger. In many instances resisting arrest can involve physical force towards the arresting officers, as in the Rodney King situation. A case documented on video which shows the officers acting properly to subdue an enraged individual high on PCP and intent on mayhem.

In the act of resisting a legal authority making an arrest the perpetrators put themselves and others at physical risk. This situation is nothing to play with or to minimize by second guessing the actions of the arresting officers. The vast majority of these arrests are carried out by physical restraint and are found to be executed properly.

You, sir are living in a liberal fairy land where all people are cooperative and act responsibly. If that were the case no one would resist arrest. Unequivocally, no one in America ever has grounds to resist arrest. The legal system provides adequate redress for false arrest and legal protection of the innocent as well as the guilty. By leaving room for doubt you are opening a door for the lawless to walk through. You do so at your peril. This country is far from a police state, but it is becoming an increasingly lawless one and you sir are partly to blame with your vigorous defense of examples of lawlessness. The fact that fifty rounds were discharged by five officers at the scene of a violent attempted escape from questioning should serve as an example to perpetrators that the police are nothing to play with and that their power is absolute in that situation. After all, they have weapons and the legal authority to use them. If you resist, knowing the situation you have yourself to blame. I might ask , on a personal level for the sake of discussion and understanding, have you ever been arrested? I have, very recently. I am almost 60 years old and was speeding on the highway (106 mph) at 1 am. Just me and the trucks as I was heading home sober just going fast and enjoying it. An officer entered the highway and observed my speed and pulled me over. Being a middle class affluent white guy I was not prepared to encounter harsh police authority. Like many other stops for speeding, I expected the routine license /reg. request and the obligatory ticket. To my surprise I was ordered out of the car, turned around and handcuffed immediately. I was angry, scared, surprised and confused. My initial thoughts were first to swing at the officer (impossible) and then to run (stupid). I did neither and was taken to the station booked and thrown in a jail cell with all the other criminals. I was livid. I was also wrong. The officer was entirely correct to respond the way he did. He is assessing a dangerous situation in which both of our lives depend on how he responds. He does not know me . Going 106 is grounds for serious suspicion of other illegality. He did what was necessary to get the situation under control. How many times does this young man stop cars going 106 and find drunks, drug addicts, and criminals at the wheel? How many times does he find drugs, guns, stolen property in the car? How many times does the suspect resist arrest by fighting or shooting the officer, or fleeing the scene. You see, the officer arrests 30 people a month, he's an expert at it. The baddest criminal around might get arrested 10 times in their life while the average citizen might never have been arrested. The officer did me a favor that day, he showed me how serious my behavior was, and perhaps save you , my friend, from being hit head on at 106 mph by an old man who fell asleep at the wheel. I'd love to hear your personal thoughts on this subject.

[mockingbyrd]

There's such a thing as tough cases, this might just be one of them.

Of course, if I had my druthers, strip clubs wouldn't exist. Which would have solved this tough case all together and a few others as well.

[Kenny Bunk]

Dawg,
I think it is clear that this is a pro-cop site. Personally, I am former JP, and have long worked closely with both town police and county Sheriff's Departments.

Now, following your advice, and lucky enough to live way out in the country, but where even the NY Post is available at our truck stop, along with Hi-speed links, I have now read up on this case as much as is possible at this stage of the investigation.

The cops in on this bust gone bad, which is all it really might be, are going to get fried, at least around the edges. What you are doing for them is the old:
"Guilty, your honor, but with an explanation."

Sorry, but they're going to need a bit more lawyering than that to dodge this bullet. Their union doesn't lack for resources, so they may make it. The city, however, ain't gonna be so lucky, after the "Wrongful Death," and Civil Suits to recover for pain, suffering, and loss of income are settled.

I do apologize to your Imperial Crustiness for shooting off my mouth without checking things out more thoroughly. OTOH, it was a little like our friends in the NYPD, to whom I wish good luck in the firestorm swirling around them.

[Mad Dawg]

There's such a thing as tough cases, this might just be one of them.

Yeah that!

What I'm about to say is not exculpatory of anybody, BUT:

After 3:00 o'clock in the morning?
The guy has two kids?
He's at a strip club?
A strip club in not exactly a part of town known for, well, family values?

I was one of those guys moderately afraid of matrimony and just plain terrified of fatherhood -- and I used to be a chaplain in pediatrics and I LOVE kids, always have. But the responsibility of one of my own? YeeOW! Get me OUDda heah!

But you know where this goes: Having a kid, and a sick one at that, stretched me to where I thought I would tear (analogy to child-birth entirely intentional) or go mad or something. And it's the best thing on terms of rewards and in terms of keeping me from being a totally useless air-sucker that ever happened to me. Way, far, exponentially the best.

And this guy decides to marry his alleged high-school sweetheart and prepares himself for a lifelong unconditional commitment by going to a titty show and staying out WAY past his bed time? Who was watching the kids?

Sleep with the dogs, wake up with fleas -- and some of those fleas are 9 mm in diameter.

As I say, not to excuse any possible errors, or worse, on the part of the officers, and certainly not to say the guy in anyway deserved the involuntary shuffling off of the ventilated mortal coil, but compost happens, and it tends to happen most near compost piles. You wanna minimize the parts per million occurrences of compost? Stay out of the dung heap.

[Mad Dawg]

your Imperial Crustiness

I think the "Your" should have been captitalized too ....

heh heh heh. I think I may have to adopt H.I.C. (His Imperial Crustiness) as one of my titles.

Nice answer. I sure would not like to hear this case, either as a judge or as an IAD honcho.

I'm not sure if FR is pro-cop. I think it's polarized. And even then the polarization is not so much anti-cop v. pro-cop, but anti-cop v. anti-alleged-perp.

unscientific opinion. But the healthy suspicion of gummint, triggered by the rare but undeniable sumbidge with a badge, sometimes ends up condemning the whole bunch. In this thread I especially appreciated the subtle litotes of police "not infrequently" lying through their teeth.