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To: Ford4000
Come off it. Resisting arrest is not and never has been an excuse to shoot - only if it puts the officers or someone elses life at risk. This is why officers carry non-lethal weapons.
My disapproval of the police shooting fleeing suspects in the back does not make me a libertarian. It is stupid, wrong and illegal.


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Resisting arrest can take many forms. In this case it was using an escape vehicle as a weapon and putting the arresting officers and the passengers of the car in imminent danger. In many instances resisting arrest can involve physical force towards the arresting officers, as in the Rodney King situation. A case documented on video which shows the officers acting properly to subdue an enraged individual high on PCP and intent on mayhem.

In the act of resisting a legal authority making an arrest the perpetrators put themselves and others at physical risk. This situation is nothing to play with or to minimize by second guessing the actions of the arresting officers. The vast majority of these arrests are carried out by physical restraint and are found to be executed properly.

You, sir are living in a liberal fairy land where all people are cooperative and act responsibly. If that were the case no one would resist arrest. Unequivocally, no one in America ever has grounds to resist arrest. The legal system provides adequate redress for false arrest and legal protection of the innocent as well as the guilty. By leaving room for doubt you are opening a door for the lawless to walk through. You do so at your peril. This country is far from a police state, but it is becoming an increasingly lawless one and you sir are partly to blame with your vigorous defense of examples of lawlessness. The fact that fifty rounds were discharged by five officers at the scene of a violent attempted escape from questioning should serve as an example to perpetrators that the police are nothing to play with and that their power is absolute in that situation. After all, they have weapons and the legal authority to use them. If you resist, knowing the situation you have yourself to blame. I might ask , on a personal level for the sake of discussion and understanding, have you ever been arrested? I have, very recently. I am almost 60 years old and was speeding on the highway (106 mph) at 1 am. Just me and the trucks as I was heading home sober just going fast and enjoying it. An officer entered the highway and observed my speed and pulled me over. Being a middle class affluent white guy I was not prepared to encounter harsh police authority. Like many other stops for speeding, I expected the routine license /reg. request and the obligatory ticket. To my surprise I was ordered out of the car, turned around and handcuffed immediately. I was angry, scared, surprised and confused. My initial thoughts were first to swing at the officer (impossible) and then to run (stupid). I did neither and was taken to the station booked and thrown in a jail cell with all the other criminals. I was livid. I was also wrong. The officer was entirely correct to respond the way he did. He is assessing a dangerous situation in which both of our lives depend on how he responds. He does not know me . Going 106 is grounds for serious suspicion of other illegality. He did what was necessary to get the situation under control. How many times does this young man stop cars going 106 and find drunks, drug addicts, and criminals at the wheel? How many times does he find drugs, guns, stolen property in the car? How many times does the suspect resist arrest by fighting or shooting the officer, or fleeing the scene. You see, the officer arrests 30 people a month, he's an expert at it. The baddest criminal around might get arrested 10 times in their life while the average citizen might never have been arrested. The officer did me a favor that day, he showed me how serious my behavior was, and perhaps save you , my friend, from being hit head on at 106 mph by an old man who fell asleep at the wheel. I'd love to hear your personal thoughts on this subject.
236 posted on 11/29/2006 6:22:52 AM PST by photodawg
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To: photodawg

Thanks for the lecture. Your version of the events is exactly what the NYPD officers have asserted. If you think that the police can be entirely trusted in situations like this, it is you who are in a fantasy land. They know it was a big screw-up and are protecting themselves and their fellow officers (to what extent remains to be seen).
The fact (which you gloss over) is that the officer was undercover and that the group of individuals did not know that. Were they fleeing because they thought he was an p/o or a thug? If it was the latter, was that reaction unforeseeable and what was the plan if it happened? Can they really expect someone fleeing for their lives from criminals to stop if someone out of uniform says "I'm a police officer"? The fact that 50 rounds were fired at a car full of innocent and unarmed people tells me that there was a lack of critical thinking before the operation started.


241 posted on 11/29/2006 7:25:45 AM PST by Ford4000
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To: photodawg
Nice post!

106 mph! You have expensive tastes!

I think you should sue us for profiling. Just because the average reckless in the umpteenth degree driver is a real major drug-zonked baddie doesn't mean that each and every one of them shouldn't be treated with the utmost courtesy and respect: Sir, I'm dreadfully sorry, but I'm going to have to ask you to step out of your automobile and put your hands behind your back. Please don't hesitate to tell me if these cuffs are in anyway restrictive or uncomfortable. Can I get you a donut?
Um SARCASM OFF.

Thanks for your post. I hope they treat you fairly and I hope you get a chance to tell them (a)that you think they did right and well; and (b) maybe get a chance to "preach" to some high schoolers or somesuch.

A judge and I were hoping to get access to some civics classes at the 11th or 12th grade level and explain to the little darlings that once they hit 18, it's the real world, and what they do counts. The number of collitch kids who are really astonished to learn that, yep, they're grownups now, and this is for real is itself astonishing.

242 posted on 11/29/2006 7:33:25 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Now we are all Massoud)
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