War cannot be waged 'peacefully'

Toronto Sun ^ | 11/26/2006 | Peter Worthington

[Mr. Silverback]

I hate to use this analogy because in might seem frivolous, but Islam reminds me of the "BORG" of Star Trek.

Not frivolous at all, but an apt comparison. The only point of debate is whetehr the Islamic nations can become like Japan. If Islam is the Shinto of the 21st Century, we will win without having to be motivated by a huge wake up call. If it isn't, this one goes to the mat, assuming the terrorists don't hit us with something like the scenario on the Jericho TV show.

[LS]

I read No True Glory, and verified the details with Marines.

Initially, Bush demanded they take the city, and the commanders on the scene resisted. They thought a policy of "attrition" would soften up the enemy---right or wrong, it was their initial call. Not long afterward, both the Brits and the Iraqi interim government said they would not support a full frontal assault---the Iraqis, because they said their government would fall apart. Bush THEN instructed Sanchez to hold up.

The Marines transferred out within, as I recall, a month, and the Airborne came in. They maintained the cordon policy, then, a couple of months later, the Marines rotated back in. For those months, both military forces used the "attrition" strategy favored by the Marines the first time around.

West is NOT clear on whether this was the best approach. He concedes that the "attrition" likely saved hundreds of Marines, and probably kept the coalition together, not to mention keeping the Iraqi government in place. Nevertheless, at the same time, he seems to favor the "scorched earth" policy.

If you read "No True Glory," and come to a different conclusion, please let me know.

[Irisshlass]

Over a year ago they were.

[Irisshlass]

I thought President Bush said, He was allowing his generals to call the shots?

[Irisshlass]

There is no comparison between the Japanese and these people. The Japanese were motivated by economic expansion. The terrorists have a far greater motivation, to have Islam and Islamic govt one in the same to rule the world.

[dirtboy]

There is no comparison between the Japanese and these people. The Japanese were motivated by economic expansion. The terrorists have a far greater motivation, to have Islam and Islamic govt one in the same to rule the world.

I guess beheading hurts less when it is done in the name of economic expansion as opposed to being done in the name of Allah.

[Recon Dad]

If the troops were calling the shots we would have bombed Syria and Iran already. The troops fight with one arm tied behind their backs. You can't win fighting this way.

[Recon Dad]

My take on Mattis was he would have fought it like the Marines always do down and dirty and that he was on a very short leash.
Bremer was always at odds with the military due to the fuzzy lines of who gave the orders. I would bet the holding back of the troops can be traced back to him.

I will reread the book.

[Recon Dad]

My take on Mattis was he would have fought it like the Marines always do down and dirty and that he was on a very short leash.
Bremer was always at odds with the military due to the fuzzy lines of who gave the orders. I would bet the holding back of the troops can be traced back to him.

I will reread the book.

[Recon Dad]

I don't follow Jericho, but I do watch "24" and I have no doubt that what happened on 911 should be considered a preview of things to come.
At some point the monster that will be our vengeance will be released when we can't determine who exactly struck us and we will vaporize Iran, Syria, N Korea and whomever else we suspect to be responsible.

[Recon Dad]

I thought the Orks showed fear whereas the BORG never did, so I think your analogy is better than mine.

[LS]

Yeah, it's not clear to me why the Marines hesitated to go in immediately (because that was Bush's original order). But I have to say in retrospect, I think it was the smart decision. Not only did it save a lot of our guys, but it allowed us to kill a ton of them the "easy" way.

Now, did it make as big a "public statement" as if we had carpet bombed the place? No. But if both the Brits had pulled out and the Iraqi interim government had collapsed in Spring 2004, I don't think Bush would have been re-elected, and it would all be moot now anyway.

[He Rides A White Horse]

The Israel war planes were called off. So now, every time the Israelis give the 30-minute warning which, apparently, is policy, the "human shields" of women and children head for the targeted house, secure in the knowledge that the Israelis won't attack.

Right, just as most mosques are a weapons depot with spires.

[TigersEye]

I completely agree. It won't be a simple fact of one city gone like Katrina wiping out New Orleans either. The misery will be spread far beyond the actual cite of destruction. Radical Islam will press its death march to the end unless it is utterly wiped out.

[Mr. Silverback]

I don't watch Jericho, but my understanding is that there have been a dozen or more cities hit by nuclear weapons on the show, and that a few episodes into the series the townspeople witness a number of ICBMs being launched.

[Mr. Silverback]

Over a year ago they were.

And brilliantly so, with the Marines making their quotea by the end of September.

So, can you cite an article showing that they aren't going to make the '06 quota?

[Mr. Silverback]

There is no comparison between the Japanese and these people.

Balderdash. All the same things are there: A culture built on avoiding shame and achieving honor, a religion that guarantees paradise for the warrior who kills himself getting at the enemy, degradation of women, a thirst for domination and a belief in the inherent superiority of their culture....

The Japanese went from being the jihadis of their day to being a pacifist nation because they were whipped as badly as a nation can be whipped, and they were remade from the ground up. That will have to happen with Islam, if it can be done at all.

[1234]

keep hearin Chenehy pulls strings, and is intellectual powerhouse, etc..

[Mr. Silverback]

keep hearin Chenehy pulls strings, and is intellectual powerhouse, etc..

Well, what you've heard is the sort of drivel that dipstick lefties traffic in, because they can't imagine that a guy with a Harvard MBA could be smarter than them. Really, get a grip.

[1234]

...a Harvard MBA .... Really, get a grip.

yessuh