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To: presidio9

It's just where I stand today. I have grown up a Catholic and still attend...however I really see where I differ with just about every issue they seem to stand in the public square other than Abortion and God being more involved in people's lives every day.

Example, when I heard the Pope say executing Saddam is wrong and shouldn't be done...is just insane to me. I have to look around once in a while at just who I am standing with and wonder...am I on the right team in God's church here? Because I really do subscribe to the eye for an eye concept.

Knowing what the Vatican turned their heads to in WW2 and what was happening with Jews..I mean there is only so much one can take hearing in the way of excuses and theology.

Don't get me wrong..I will never leave the church..EVER..however..I do not agree with a good 40-50% of what its spokespeople say.


20 posted on 11/24/2006 8:23:41 AM PST by My Favorite Headache ("Head-On...Apply Directly To The Forehead, Head-On...Apply Directly To The Forehead")
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To: My Favorite Headache; wideawake; Coleus; Salvation
Knowing what the Vatican turned their heads to in WW2 and what was happening with Jews..

Don't go down that road with me buddy. That's a liberal myth perpetuated by those who hate the Catholic Church for other reasons, but see this as one of the best means of discrediting it. It is believed by those who confuse the Pope for a political leader, instead of a spiritual one. Pope Pius XII didn't have an army, and he was situated in the middle of a fascist allied country. His hand was not completely free. Catholicism was savagely perseucted in Germany and Eastern Europe, and in Spain during their own facist experience. That being said, after the war his efforts were widely credited for saving over one million Jews by Holocaust survivors and Isreali diplomats, including Albert Einstein and Golda Meir. You've been misinformed and are barking up the wrong tree with that one.

25 posted on 11/24/2006 8:36:02 AM PST by presidio9 (Tagline Censored)
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To: My Favorite Headache
Knowing what the Vatican turned their heads to in WW2 and what was happening with Jews..I mean there is only so much one can take hearing in the way of excuses and theology.

It is far more complicated than that regarding WW2. The Vatican actually did quite a bit during the war in Italy. In fact, the Italian government with the help of the Vatican is credited in saving most Italian Jews lives through a complex series of census taking, numbers juggling, and protection strategies. Google Dorothy Rabinowitz and her research work regarding this.
36 posted on 11/24/2006 9:04:41 AM PST by crymeariver (Good news...in a way)
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To: My Favorite Headache
I'm glad you are Catholic, but you have to better educate yourself. Your information on World War II is completely wrong, and it is shocking that a Catholic would buy into the lie instead of listening to what Jews have to say about Pope Pius XII incredible work to save so many Jews.

For Christmas you might get these titles to read and read them during the course of 2007:

1. Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church
2. Triumph by H.W. Crocker
3. Theology and Sanity by Frank Sheed
And I would recommend looking into critical articles that sift through the fiction regarding the Vatican, Hitler, and the War. The person Hitler hated most was Pope Pius XII, and Hitler planned to kill all Catholic priests once he was victorious in the war.
39 posted on 11/24/2006 9:21:29 AM PST by Maeve ( St. Maroun, St. Charbel, St. Rafqa and all Maronite saints, pray for ua and for the whole world.)
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To: My Favorite Headache
Example, when I heard the Pope say executing Saddam is wrong and shouldn't be done

that wasn't the pope! - that was cardinal Martino. Thank the Lord that Benedict XVI is pope and not Martino.

41 posted on 11/24/2006 9:44:39 AM PST by Nihil Obstat (viva il papa - be not afraid)
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To: My Favorite Headache
"Knowing what the Vatican turned their heads to in WW2 and what was happening with Jews..I mean there is only so much one can take hearing in the way of excuses and theology."

The vatican saved hundreds of thousands of Jews, they just weren't vocal about it. They never turned away from anyone. Many were martyred for it, over 800 priests were put to death, over 1200 churches monastaries were raised to the ground.

You should look a little deeper as to what when on at that time, and don't settle for what Catholic haters say. Pope Pius did as much as he could, and that was alot. What's really shamefull is he never got any credit for it, especially in the secular world. The personal attacks he endured must have been heartbreaking, especially when you realize all he did, and how he outsmarted Hitler. Do yourself a favor, and seek out the truth. You'll be glad you did.

Does the Vatican do stupid things? Of course.

When the Pope kissed the Koran and called it a "holy book", I wanted to puke. Obviously he never read it.

47 posted on 11/24/2006 8:41:32 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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