Posted on 11/20/2006 8:24:45 AM PST by areafiftyone
Mitt Romney (R) begins the 2008 campaign season in fourth place among those seeking the GOP Presidential nomination, trailing Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, and Condoleezza Rice. While many Republican insiders believe the Massachusetts Governor could become an attractive candidate to the party's social conservatives, a Rasmussen Reports survey finds that Romney's faith may initially be more of a hindrance than a help.
Forty-three percent (43%) of American voters say they would never even consider voting for a Mormon Presidential candidate. Only 38% say they would consider casting such a vote while 19% are not sure. Half (53%) of all Evangelical Christians say that they would not consider voting for a Mormon candidate.
Overall, 29% of Likely Voters have a favorable opinion of Romney while 30% hold an unfavorable view. Most of those opinions are less than firmly held. Ten percent (10%) hold a very favorable opinion while 11% have a very unfavorable assessment. Among the 41% with no opinion of Romney, just 27% say they would consider voting for a Mormon.
It is possible, of course, that these perceptions might change as Romney becomes better known and his faith is considered in the context of his campaign. Currently, just 19% of Likely Voters are able to identify Romney as the Mormon candidate from a list of six potential Presidential candidates.
The response to a theoretical Mormon candidate is far less negative than the response to a Muslim candidate or an atheist. Sixty-one percent (61%) of Likely Voters say they would never consider voting for a Muslim Presidential candidate. Sixty percent (60%) say the same about an atheist.
The Rasmussen Reports survey found that 35% say that a candidate's faith and religious beliefs are very important in their voting decision. Another 27% say faith and religious beliefs are somewhat important. Ninety-two percent (92%) of Evangelical Christian voters consider a candidate's faith and beliefs important.
On the partisan front, 78% of Republicans say that a candidate's faith is an important consideration, a view shared by 55% of Democrats. However, there is also a significant divide on this topic within the Democratic Party. Among minority Democrats, 71% consider faith and religious beliefs an important consideration for voting. Just 44% of white Democrats agree.
The national telephone survey of 1,000 Likely Voters was conducted by Rasmussen Reports November 16-17, 2006. The margin of sampling error for the survey is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence.
gotta go for now...good discussions.
Are you FOR anything? Do you really think that Hillary would serve the interests of America better than ANY Republican, even a RINO?
I've always protested having to vote for the lesser of two evils. In this case I'm ready to do just that in order to keep a Socialist-Commie out of the WH.
Why do you hate Mormons so much? Were you spanked by a Mormon babysitter when you were a kid? If so, I'd think that you'd have gotten over it, since it was probably only couple of months ago. Try letting the adults speak for a while. Maybe you'll learn something.
I've never understood the anti-Mormon stuff. I grew up with lots of Mormons. Every one I knew was kind, hard-working, and honest as the day is long.
I don't freep during the day while working, so the times I freep when I'm not busy is in the evenings. Chances are that I miss lots of parties here at FR.
THIS was never taught. God the Father is the literal father of Jesus Christ, nothing was said about sex (you have a perverted mind) We have many ways of doing this now, God has so many ways to do this we can’t count them.
Perverted mind? LOL.... let's take a look whose mind is perverted, shall we?
Regarding God having sexual relations with Mary to have Jesus, by Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857; vol. 8, p. 115.
believe that after becoming a good Mormon a person has the potential to become a god
Well, we are his children, and have linked the scripture (from the Bible) on other posts on this thread…
Really? Check out the teachings of Joseph Smith: pages 345-347, 354.
From DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTSSECTION 132:20 "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them,"
This is really twisted phraseology, How about just going to the source
It is twisted according to the Mormon Doctrine, p. 163 - I agree with that.
From the Book of Abraham translated by from the Papyrus, by Joseph Smith:Regarding God being married to his goddess wife, read the Mormon Doctrine p. 516. So let me put it simply.... A Mormon Jesus is non-existent.Pearl of Great Price, Book of Abraham 4:3-7
4:3 – And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.
4:4 – And they (the Gods) comprehended the light …
4:5 – And the Gods called the light Day …
4:6 – And the Gods also said …
4:7 – And the Gods ordered the expanse …
Where in the Bible does it use the word Trinity?
When you talk about Jesus, you talk about the New Testament.
Go and read my earlier posts on this thread for a link to the Catholic encyclopedia where this is discussed.
LOL, post the links if you want me to read them. I don't have the time to go looking for posts.
"We already know that evangelicals will vote for a Bill or Hillary Clinton or a Jimmy Carter--all Baptists. "
"I have finally decided that, after 65 years, I can no longer be associated with the Southern Baptist Convention."
___"This is a torturous decision to make," Carter added in an interview. "I do it with anguish and not with any pleasure." Carter, 76, said he could no longer "add my name and my support" to SBC efforts because its leaders "have departed from what I believe."
"Bill Clinton: Although a Southern Baptist, many in the SBC take issue with Pres. Clinton on a variety of matters. At the 1999 Southern Baptist annual convention (Atlanta, GA), formal resolutions were passed condemning recent actions by the president, including his declaration of June as "Gay and Lesbian Pride Month" and the appointment of James Hormel (a homosexual) as the ambassador to Luxembourg. "
Jimmy and Bill aren't the most popular Baptists, and Hillary is Methodist, George Allen is Presbyterian.
I am just about ready to graduate (am student teaching now).
Intriguing question. I would definitely think the punishment would be Hillary! :)
Creative way of putting it there.
You still haven't showed me where the MA legislature passed any law before Romney forced through gay marriage.
Show me the law.
Cool. Are you planning post graduate work?
Intriguing question. I would definitely think the punishment would be Hillary! :)
I was always curious about what we did as a nation to deserve Clinton. The motto at that time was "it's the economy stupid". Well we got what we asked for and we sowed the wind and I think we may be reaping the whirlwind here in the next decade or so. I hope not, but I think the way our country is headed, I am not particularly optimistic regarding our political future.
I think we may be under His judgment right now with Pelosi and company running the congress. We need to repent of whatever national sin brought that result to pass.
We have a tendency to look for a leader to guide us through the rough times, but as the bible states, the heart of the [leader] is in the hand of God and "as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will." God's will will be done. Let us pray his will for us is mercy and not judgment. (sometimes I sound more Calvinistic than most Calvinists) :-)
>>Okay, I can say for certainty that a certain snake was loose in the garden. That at least
>>makes him older than at least everybody (except perhaps Adam & Eve).
>>So, that would make him your elder brother, right? (I mean, if Jesus is your Elder
>>brother, and Lucifer is Jesus' brother, then Lucifer is also your elder brother, right?)
You are assuming (Erroneously) that Mormons believe we are brothers because we were created here. Actually we believe we are brothers because we were spirit children of our father. No where does it say when in this pre existence Lucifer was created spiritually, it could have been before or after you and I you could be older, I could. And who is older really does not matter except that we are told that Jesus was the first bore of the spirit of the Father. (The 2x Creation thing again)
>>Of course, only Jesus can tell who is and who isn't.
>>My questions for you:
>>(1) Does God ever give anyone spiritual discernment to someone to discern where
>>another person is, snapshot like, at that point in his/her life spiritually at that moment?
Yes, these people are called prophets
>>Look, for example at Philip in the book of Acts re: the Ethiopian eunuch: "The Spirit
>>told Philip, 'Go to that chariot and stay near it.' Then Philip ran up to the chariot and
>>heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. 'Do you understand what you are reading?'
>>Philip asked." (Acts 8:29-30)
>>Now, was Philip being judgmental when he asked the Ethiopian, "Do you understand
>>what you are reading?"
Phillip was being led by the spirit and was open to the possibility that someone he would not have expected to be spiritual, might be.
>> (That question would only be asked of someone who was assuming that their
>>understanding was not where it the Holy Spirit wanted it to be, revelation-wise).
>>(2) When Jesus says "Ye shall know them by their fruit," is that a totally meaningless
>>statement? (Should that verse have been changed in the JST to read, "Ye shall not
>>know them at all, by their fruit or by their professed doctrine, because that could be
>>conceived as being judgmental"?)
So, in your definition, what is good fruit? (Hint, I consider the Shriners an excellent example of good fruit, and they are not Mormons)
>>(3) Why bother sending missionaries, LDS or Christian, to the Buddhists in Asia or the
>>Hindus in India? I mean isn't that presumptively passing "judgment" on them?
What part of "all the world" do you think we should disobey and not send missionaries to? We also have missionaries in Salt Lake city, New York, and Wisconsin (which is where my parents joined)
Aren't these missionary agencies guilty, as you claim, of declaring them "unChristian?"
No. We preach, we Teach We Exhort, We expound we testify of Christ to all men and each other. We are not judging anyone by testifying of the truth as we understand it to all men, quite the reverse of judging actually.
How could they possibly "see into the heart" of any given Buddhist, Muslim, or Hindu?
Well, I wrestled with that myself, so I took lessons from and graduated from a Buddhist monastery in Taiwan my first two months there to better understand those I would teach. Bhuddisem is technically not a religion, although many of it’s practitioners do not even understand that much, it is a philosophy. Daoism is a religion, and often co-opts Buddha as a God into its religion. Most of the people in Taiwan believe a mix of the two we as missionaries dubbed “the church of tradition”.
(4) To be a latter-day saint has a definite definition/boundary. So "Christian" carries no similar definition/boundary? It's self-determined? Self-identified?
That’s because the Church which started Mormonism still exists today. All the protestant churches and Mormonism agree on one thing at least. The Catholic Church Lost the way somewhere (where varies by which religion) and needed to be reformed. The Catholics maintain they have never “lost the way” Actually since God’s pattern is to send a prophet to build up his church, and he does not change, any protestant church not started by a prophet, cannot be God’s church (That leaves the Catholics and the Mormons as the only two who could logically be right.
For those with a sense of humor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpMrcvag6DA ) humorless people do NOT click here! I will not be held responsible for any humor that might be acquired by those who do not know how to take a joke.
I think some of the wind was taken out of the evangelicals' sails when their leader admitted to soliciting drugs and a gay prostitute last month. at the time I thought it could only be good news for Mitt.
Actually, it’s the Non Mormons that keep committing suicide; I think it’s all the activities they get asked to go to by all their neighbors, the little chats about religion can get wearying if all three fences in your back yard have an eager Missionary minded Mormon hanging over them. (I exaggerate, and I hope you get the Humor). I have two neighbors who are not Mormon, I don’t pester them, and wave while driving to church while they are out doing yard work, they some times invite me over for BQ and stock Fresca, instead of beer for me. They talk about how I’m the “Mormon they can talk to and not get proselyted”, and I kid them about “if you ever are interested you’ll come to me first, right?”
As for the Suicide rate, being a Mormon is a high standards proposition, I hope kids who don’t feel they can hack it would just go inactive, not kill themselves, but apparently some do.
>>Who has judged whom? Joseph Smith passed judgment on every professor of
>>Christendom as being "corrupt!" So Joseph Smith was given that knowledge of every
>>heart and mind and soul to make such a widescale, sweeping, accusation?
Joseph said the teachings were corrupt. He said nothing about the people. (weren’t you the one that said we had to judge things, not people?) Mormons believe you will be judged by what you know.
>>Joseph Smith judged every creed of Christendom as an "abomination" before God.
>>Now who's judging who?
Um, he’s judging a creed, not people see my first response here.
>>In short, Joseph Smith judged every Christian who claims to be part of "the faith that was ONCE FOR ALL entrusted to the saints" (Jude 4) [BTW, "once for all" means "once for all"--not a total apostasy to be restored again...just like Jesus told a true prophesy when He said the gates of hell shall not prevail against His church...whereas Joseph was calling Jesus a liar in that such a prevailing did occur).
Jude 1: 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Um, it does not say what you said it would (there’s only on chapter in Jude, I did read the whole chapter just to make sure you didn’t just blow the Verse)
I thought this one was cool: Jude 1: 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
So, who are they talking about here? (Lucifer, who drew 1/3 of the host of heaven after him, the first estate, they did not obey God while spirits, but fought against Jesus Christ who had been chosen to be the savior, and all this happened before the physical world was even created.
How about 2 Thes 2:3? (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_thes/2/3#3)
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
So, there had to be a falling away before the end.
>>Souls would be captured to the LDSism for eternity.
Your Bias revealed.
>>Yes. While on earth, Jesus gave all the glory to the Father. But Jesus has a share in that glory now:
So once he’s gone, stop following his example? Hey to you guys, it all the same essence, right? So why the fuss over us using one name and you another?
If you truly thought we were wrong, you would be more willing to let it slide, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you are afraid we are right, and that is what fuels your venom.
>>So, now what's your excuse?
No excuses, we don’t need any.
(BTW, this "glory" isn't new to Jesus...he just laid it down for a 33-year span within the context of eternity...note the words, "the glory I had with you before the world began."
Yep, Jesus Existed before the world Began, so did you as a spirit. Jesus had achieved Glory before he came down here, and got it back as soon as he left (it would have been kind of inconvenient to be the “Glowing Kid” when Herrod was trying to kill all the males his age to kill him.
Oops, there goes the man-become-god theory...it's rather the God-become-man Biblical truth).
How about the Spirit becomes Man Becomes God biblical truth?
We are currently in act two of a three act play, if you have ever seen a three act play, act two never makes any sense all by itself, act one sets the stage, act wo has all the action, and in act three, justice is handed out and all the loose ends are tied up (if it’s a good play that is)
No oops’, no excuses, just explanations to one who appears to be overly concerned that we might be right.
>>If you study church history, you will note that it was the "heathen"--not the godly folks--who were polytheists
Then why did Hypolytus in his series titled A Refutation of all Heresies have an entire book about God and Christ not being the same person? He called this belief Heresy and was banished for his belief. (He was the Great, Great Grandson of John, and elected as the First Antipope)
I love studying Church history!
>>BTW, haven't you noticed the RLDS have become more Biblical in their doctrine through the years?
Yes, I also remember when they announced the building of their “Temple” they were asked what they were going to do in there and said they were “still studying that” Now you can rent it for conventions and stuff. Sad Really they have lost so much, but splinter groups usually do.
I wouldn't have had a problem with voting for a Mormon until I spent some time in Utah two years ago.
I would not vote for Mitt Romney, but the main reasons have nothing to do with him being a Mormon.
I'm with you.
>>It's been extremely rare for such folks to use the "nuclear option" and blast away at everything they believe
Rare maybe, but not unheard of (Have you read about Calvinism? They think you and I will be in neighboring pools of Brimstone).
>>Same applies to your "don't you offer us the same?" The answer is, "No, I don't take
>>issue with all creeds of Mormonism." Certainly, you've read post to AppyPappy about
>>what is in common between BoM and Bible...and I barely touched the surface.
So you don’t offer to teach me what you know of Christ? That’s what I was talking about.
>>Yeah, how convenient for Joseph Smith
The truth is always convenient.
>>they don't know that even basic phrases like "eternal hell" have been totally redefined.
How do you know what they know? The BOM is used of course, as a teaching tool. The Gospel is also preached verbally, testimony is given verbally, hearts are lifted when they hear the Good News, this is a good thing.
So how exactly did David get promised that God would not leave his soul in hell if being sent to hell is eternal?
>>So, you're telling me that when the BoM describes heaven as being "eternal" it's not
>>really eternal...[that we're all gonna get a heavenly pink slip some day]...that heaven is
>>only called "eternal" because God is "eternal." [Gotta be consistent, ya know]
You are reminding me of an atheist friend of mine who told me he could prove god wasn’t all powerful. He said “God can’t make a rock so big that he can’t lift it.” I responded that God was also omniscient, which means he is not dumb.
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