WashTimes: China sub secretly stalked U.S. fleet (surprisingly within firing range)

Washington Times ^ | Washington Times

[quesney]

By Bill Gertz THE WASHINGTON TIMES November 13, 2006

The USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier The USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier (AFP/Getty Images)

A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.

The surprise encounter highlights China's continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S., despite Pentagon efforts to try to boost relations with Beijing's communist-ruled military.

The submarine encounter with the USS Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships also is an embarrassment to the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, who is engaged in an ambitious military exchange program with China aimed at improving relations between the two nations' militaries.

Disclosure of the incident comes as Adm. Gary Roughead, commander of the U.S. Navy's Pacific Fleet, is making his first visit to China.

[...]

[x_plus_one]

Why would the Chinese want us to know they had this capability ?

For the same reason dongs cant not smell each others buts.

[KenmcG414]

If its true that this sub stalked the carrier group without us knowing; should be cause for immediate removal of the fleet admiral, the carrier group commander as well as the carrier's commander ASAP.

[Patton@Bastogne]

.


Ozzymandus,


If the sub had been detected, what could we have done about it? Obviously, not much.


It's common knowledge that all U.S. Aircraft Carriers travel with an Los-Angeles class attack submarine escort ... the ChiComs didn't know it, but they were involved in a cat-n-mouse game when they closed within xxx nautical miles of the battle group.


Patton-at-Bastogne

"May God and His Angels Guard Your Sacred Throne, and May You Long Become It."

Shakespeare, Henry V, Act I, Scene II


.

[bert]

....before being detected......

says who?

[Jeff Head]

The Song is an effective AIP Diesel Electric. But it is good in the littoral regions. It does not have the speed or endurance to effectively stalk the Kitty Hawk...except in non-war time conditions close in to shore. Particularly near Japan.

In war, with a buttoned up condition...I do not believe it would come close unless the KH made some significant mistakes. The Song class could however be an effectiove block in the China Sea, particularly around Taiwan and other similar places.

[EQAndyBuzz]

"Like we would tell them that we know they are there."

Thank you. Someone gets it.

[colonialhk]

The MNC's donate a great deal of money in DC to keep China close to the US so they can get market access.

[EQAndyBuzz]

With our technology, we know where every military vessel of our enemies are every second of every day. I don't think there is any denying of this.

Saying that, we had satellite pictures of all those trucks leaving Iraq for Syria. We went in front of the world and showed them how WMD sites were dismantled and their cargoes loaded on trucks.

Yet mysteriously all these trucks vanished and our intelligence services suddenly became inept?

[verity]

Agree.

Also, it seems to me that if China is hell-bent on economic expansion and modernization, starting a war with the US would be counterproductive.

[verity]

Agree.

Also, it seems to me that if China is hell-bent on economic expansion and modernization, starting a war with the US would be counterproductive.

[Oberon]

Uh, why are we doing this?

I seriously doubt that we're showing them anything more "sensitive" than they're showing us. The article is most likely propaganda.

I can't imagine that our military would show the Chinese anything they didn't already know about, and it's to be expected that our military should complain about a lack of Chinese reciprocation.

In other words, no news here.

[meandog]

within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected...

Incredibly easy to do because all SKIMMERS ARE STUPID!

[WoofDog123]

"#2 is classified and you are posting it?"

read my statement again. if you think it is a secret that it is NOT KNOWN (by the public, meaning us) if the sub was detected constitutes giving classified information away you are in serious error. Not Known means info not available.

either it was detected or it wasn't, or there was a sonar signature recorded which was not detected for what it was at the time. in any case, you don't need a clearance to come to those conclusions and no one else does either. a class in logic is all that is called for, or even just a brain. as for the answers, as I said, that info is presumably very classified. since i don't have it, I certainly haven't posted it.

[Jeff Head]

Same exact thing could have been said about Japan prior to World War II...but they did it anyway.

[oyez]

Apparently the Vikings have stood down from ASW duties for some time now. Out defense department has decided that submarines are not as much of a threat any more. Over the last four years, strike missions have been deep inland so S-3s have been modified as gas trucks. The ASW gear and the guys in the backseats are long gone.

The Navy feels like the fleet nuclear subs, SH-60's and the Tin Cans can cover for the S3. Didn't this time.

[Blue Scourge]

Same reason we do it to other nations. Training and a show of force. This is sad, the Navy better get their stuff together.

[Blue Scourge]

A lot of people in here are breaking one of the most important laws of war. Underestimating your enemy gets you killed. The Chinese are good, it wouldn't surprise me if they did sneak up on one of our Carrier battle groups.

[Doohickey]

So to sum things up, the S-3 is in the "sundown" stage and will be completely deactivated by 2009 (probably sooner now that the Democrats are in charge). The Bugs will have to gas each other up, and the Navy is without a fixed-wing carrier-based airframe that can deliver Mk-46 torpedos.

[FreedomPoster]

Yikes. Not good news.

[raygun]

Interesting that you should mention that. Apparently 2004 DoD report mentioned the term. Apparently it is a term that is increasingly being used since 1999 in Chinese media and military publications:

INFORMATION CLEARING HOUSE (News you won't find on CNN or FoxNews): Assassin's Mace - asymetrical warfare

19 Oct 06 article in Asia Times by Victor N Corpus: retired brigadier general of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP); former chief of the Intelligence Service, AFP; and holds a master's degree in public administration from the Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University.

Above Asia Times article cited verbatim: GLOBAL POLICY FORUM: America's Acupunture Points - The Assassin's Mace

Global Policy Forum’s mission is to monitor policy making at the United Nations, promote accountability of global decisions, educate and mobilize for global citizen participation, and advocate on vital issues of international peace and justice.

GPF responds to a globalizing world, where officials, diplomats and corporate leaders take important policy decisions affecting all humanity, with little democratic oversight and accountability. GPF addresses this democratic deficit by monitoring the policy process, informing the public, analyzing the issues, and urging citizen action. GPF focuses on the United Nations – the most inclusive international institution, offering the best hope for a humane and sustainable future.

GPF is a non-profit, tax-exempt organization, with consultative status at the UN. Founded in 1993 by an international group of concerned citizens, GPF works to strengthen international law and create a more equitable and sustainable global society. We place a heavy emphasis on networking to build broad coalitions for research, action and advocacy. GPF’s main office is strategically located across the street from UN headquarters in New York. GPF also has a European office, located in Bonn, Germany.

GPF uses a holistic approach, linking peace and security with economic justice and human development. We put our energy into well-focused and unique programs in which GPF has a special analytical and organizational edge. GPF’s main programs cover peace and security, Iraq, global social and economic policy, globalization, UN finance, UN reform, NGOs, International justice, Empire, and the changing role of states and sovereignty.