Posted on 11/06/2006 11:24:19 AM PST by Alouette
US secretary of state says Hamas government may be preferable to group 'running the streets, masked, with guns'
Associated Press Published: 11.06.06, 21:18
An elected Hamas government in the Palestinian territories may be preferable to the group operating outside the power structure and carrying out terrorist actions, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Monday.
Rice, speaking to a pro-democracy forum, made the point in arguing that that the United States should not retreat from its advocacy of democracy abroad when elections do not turn out well from the US point of view. Referring to Hamas, Rice said, "I am not so sure that it is better to have these groups running the streets, masked, with guns rather than having them have to face voters and having to deliver."
While the election that produced the Hamas victory was free and fair, she said Hamas has failed in its responsibility to obtain international acceptability. The result, Rice said, has been that the Palestinian people basically have been deprived of international assistance.
"The interesting point is would we have ever seen Hamas confronted with that dilemma without elections and without coming in to govern," Rice said.
She added that the international community should do more to convince Middle East groups that enter politics to give up terror.
While expressing disappointment with the drift toward repression in Egypt, Rice said the 2004 presidential elections produced some lasting benefits. "I don't believe that Egypt will ever go completely back to where it was in the wake of competitive presidential elections," She said.
"The kind of open debate that took place in Egypt, everywhere from in the press to cafes in Egypt, I'm told by people who were there, you don't ever really put that back in a bottle."
What in the world gives her the idea that this is an either/or situation???
"I am not so sure that it is better to have these groups running the streets, masked, with guns rather than having them have to face voters and having to deliver."
Jesus, is she an idiot or what? My opinion of her dropped from 85% to about 25%!!!
Hey Connie, let me clue you in: The way Hamas 'delivers' to it's 'voters' is by killing Jews!! And the more Jews killed, the more votes they gain!!!!
God, govt must make people stupid. just downright STUPID!
You watch. This is just the run up to recognizing this bunch of thugs so we can shovel bushels of moneyinto them again!!
God this SUCKS!
Actually, that's probably upwards of a billion. 250 mil a year for 20 years? yeah over a billion. Way over. that's why ol yassir is said to have 3 billion stashed away.
I remember when that terrorist died. Instead of talking about peace and who would succeed him, they were all trying to find where he hide all the money.
It was all about the money he pilfered.
I thought we were at war with such groups.
Condi has taken a real beating by a lot of folks on this thread. Perhaps it is best if we examine the entire context of her cherry picked sentence. She was speaking at a meeting of her Advisory Commission on Democracy Promotion:
I want to speak specifically to the issue of Egypt, the sort of Middle East, and the Islamists. I don't believe that Egypt will ever go completely back to where it was in the wake of competitive presidential elections. This is one those steps forward and then some steps backward during the parliamentary elections. But the kind of open debate that took place in Egypt everywhere from in the press to cafés in Egypt, I'm told by people who are there. You don't ever really put that back in a bottle. And so continuing to try and nurture civil society there, which is stronger in Egypt than I had known -- I mean it's a more articulated set of institutions than I have known, longer standing, trying to support those is extremely important because I don’t think they'll ever completed go back.Now when something happens like Ayman Nour's arrest, we go right to the Egyptian Government about it. And I, in fact, raised it in Egypt during this latest trip. The one thing I think we can't fall prey to, fall victim to is the sense that because sometimes elections turn out differently than we might have hoped that then should back us away from the democratic enterprise.When Hamas won the election in the Palestinian Territories, we recognized that this was a legitimate election -- by all accounts it was free and fair -- but then talked about the responsibilities that Hamas had to govern. And among those responsibilities to govern is to be able to govern in a way that you can get the, Abu Mazen himself has called it, the international acceptability that it takes to get assistance and to provide for the Palestinian people. And that's where Hamas has failed.
Now the interesting point is that would we have ever seen Hamas confronted with that dilemma without elections and without their coming into government? Now to be sure, I think one can ask whether it is -- the international community should be more insistent that if you're going to be in politics you really do have to give up terror. In other words, you really do have to disarm. I think that's a point that we should discuss and look at.
But I'm not so sure that it is better to have these groups running the streets, masked, with guns rather than having them have to face voters and having to deliver. So when I am told well, you know, your Middle East policy has allowed Islamists to come to power, I think well, all right, so was the answer then that the people of the Middle East don't get to have a voice in who comes to power? What it really says is that there has been an underdevelopment in the Middle East of legitimate channels for political expression that would have produced moderate, centrist-leaning parties, and that has to be worked on. But to assume that you can somehow wait until you have those institutions and parties in place before you allow people to have a voice in their -- who's going to govern them, I think that, too, would be a mistake. So you're right, it's complex. But I see no alternative than to continue to press the democratic enterprise and to try and deal and mitigate against some of its most -- some downsides.
Cherry picking what Rice said initially was unfair. In light of what she says in the entire statement, you have to admit that she has a realistic understanding of Hamas' place in Palestinian politics and the larger Middle East. Hamas does have a dilemma.
Of course, what she doesn't say, because she can't, is that the Izzies and our own intel have told her and Bush that Hamas is arming for war. She's speaking to the larger issue of the development of the Democratic enterprise in the Middle East, and using Hamas as an example.
But she's neither stupid nor naive, as these paragraphs make clear.
Be Seeing You,
Chris
Not only that, they never "had to face the voters" again. Funny what happens to democracies when tyrants are 'elected'.
Condi, would it have been better for the Nazis to have been wearing masks and running around the streets with guns, or was the world better off with racist, meglomaniacal maniacs controlling the levers of power in a state, one armed with the weapons and technology of a state(and not that of street thugs), funded with the full taxpaying and borrowing capacity of a state (instead of the sporadic proceeds of criminal activities), and given the legitimacy of a state's sovereignty (as opposed to being an illegitimate criminal enterprise)? If you really think the latter, then you should immediately resign as Secretary of State, and check into a mental institution.
That Bush doesn't shut her up (assuming she really believes this crap), is one more point in the "Bush is a mediocre President" column. Unfortunately, the alternative is far worse and, as such, I've already voted to keep Putrid Pelosi and Upchuck Schumer out of power.
Un-effin-believable. I lose more and more respect for the "Good" doctor the more she pulls this BS.
I agree with her. What she's talking about is ACCOUNTABILITY.
The Fatah government, after every Hamas terrorist outrage, can shrug its shoulders and say, "Sigh. It's those Hamas scamps again, whattaya gonna do?"
A Hamas government can't disaffiliate itself from acts of terror. Any terrorist acts under the aegis of a Hamas government are officially state-sponsored acts of war.
It means that the Palestinians are now 100% accountable for terrorism in a way that they weren't before. It means that Israel is within its rights to destroy the Palestinians' infrastructure whenever it wants.
While expressing disappointment with the drift toward repression in Egypt, Rice said the 2004 presidential elections produced some lasting benefits.Unfortunately, one of those benefits was *not* the appointment of Condi Rice as Sec'y of State. Oh, she meant the so-called Egyptian election...
yep....many folks that left this site were perplexed about the Bushbots falling all over themselves before they even knew what any of her positions were....but i know the real reason.
I wish she would go away! Far, far away!
Condi I don't like you, not even a little!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am sick of Condi's BS!
Hmmm, so who's been in the streets with guns since Hamas got elected, especially in Gaza?
"You are either with us or against us" is just sooo last year ya know.
Oh, sure, but other than firing missiles into Israel, kidnapping a soldier in a cross-border raid, shooting at people in Israel...
I only now saw this thread — I missed her remarks at that time — I didn’t know Rice said anything so foolish, although I have watched with increasing dismay as she talks and acts like the most benighted liberals of our dismal State Dept. Try to think of any US SofS saying something like this:
“RICE: Better to have the KKK in power than in streets!”
“RICE: Better to have neo-Nazis in power than in streets!”
Of course she wouldn’t say such things about politics in the US or Europe.... why does she think the murderous thugs of Hamas should be regarded with such complacent condescension?
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