West Point opens Islamic worship space as Muslim cadets increase

Newsday.com ^ | 10/22/06 | Newsday.com

[World_Events]

WEST POINT, N.Y. (AP) _ Muslims at the U.S. Military Academy numbered just two in 2001. This year, there are 32.

Now West Point has opened its first space dedicated to Muslims, a worship hall complete with a pulpit facing Mecca. The space officially opened Thursday.

"I knew the Army had a policy of religious tolerance, but I didn't know it was to this extent," said first-year Cadet Ahmed Moomin, 20, from the Maldives.

Until now, Friday prayers were held in an increasingly crowded first-floor office, said Imam Asadullah, the academy's Muslim cleric. The number of Muslim cadets jumped by 10 from last year.

The new hall is large enough for dozens of followers, he said.

West Point's Muslim leaders approached administrators last year for help.

"We live in a world where everyone is looking at the United States saying, 'You're anti-Islam.' But here at West Point, that's not what we do," West Point Chaplain Col. John Cook said.

[EnochPowellWasRight]

" The President of the United States doesn't believe it."

So? That the President *may* believe it doesn't make it true.

"Most Americans don't believe it."

I doubt that's true. In fact, polls would seem to indicate an increasingly negative view of Islam. That was clear from the visceral reaction to Dubai assuming operations of a port terminals in places like New York.

[hegemony]

That's a portion of it. Proven leadership experience in high school, involvement in extracurricular activities, high scores on the PFT, several interviews, a vigorous academic course selection, high GPA, high SAT scores and high class ranking. Letter of recommendation can come from your Congressman or Senator, some slots for enlisted, ROTC, children of career military, children of KIA, MIA, POW or extremely disabled, and the Vice-President (usually one or two per year.)

This is not an easy application process at all. Anyone who seriously applies will be run through the mill, and by the end of a four year stint, WP will weed out those who would not make extremely professional officers by virtue of the rigorous program of academics and training. Weak cadets will quit in the first summer during BEAST either because they cannot take it psychologically or they cannot deal with the physical requirements.

[Prost1]

And just who is in charge of this?

Our SecDef? I hope not! This is pure B.S.!

I have only one suggestion - open a pig farm next door to this meeting place.

[Rokke]

"The earlier dialogue had to do with whether or not it was a good idea to allow muslims into West Point - not the legality of the matter."

What? My very first post on this thread was post #26. I said the following..."While I'm no fan of the Muslim religion, the thoughts expressed on this thread do not support any argument that can be used by West Point to exclude Muslim students from either attending or practicing their faith at West Point."

"I presume you concede that it is not a good idea to allow muslims into West Point"

No. I don't concede that point. It has been done for decades. Islam hasn't changed for hundreds of years. There is absolutely zero evidence that Muslim military academy graduates have posed a threat or committed any acts of treason in any of the armed forces. Are you aware of any?

Regarding the questions you pose at the bottom of your post...they aren't relevant to this discussion. I have repeatedly asked for someone to provide legal justification that West Point can use to exclude Muslims from entering the Academy. It clearly does not exist. So it is incorrect to blame West Point officials (and officials at every single other service academy) for supporting the rule of law they've sworn to defend.

[Triggerhippie]

Just another point where your analogy falls short.

A unit comprised of a small number of potentially questionable troops (Japanese/Americans WWII) under the command of officers who's allegiance is not in question is not at all the same as having a group of men whose LEADER has potentially questionable loyalties (a US Army/muslim officer).

Leaders who aren't loyal to their mission are a huge liability. Kinda like Arnold in the RevWar, Quisling in WWII, and Kerry in VietNam...

I get that you believe these folks will be assets to the Officer Corps. I just hope that you're right.

[conservative in nyc]

Do the polls show an increasingly negative view of Islam? Yes. But one recent poll showed that a majority of Americans still think Islam is a peaceful religion, not one that encourages violence against non-Muslims (54%-33%).

[durasell]

I once had a muslim cab driver who insisted on crossing over to the BQE rather than taking the FDR straight up to get to Kennedy. He tied us up in traffic for 45 minutes! It was a hostile act!

[Old_Mil]

As I stated earlier, somebody needs to give a rational and legal justification for West Point to discriminate against Muslims.

The rational justification is that Islam has proven itself to be a violent political force whose ideology is dedicated to our overthrow...as was communism before that, and national socialism before that.

Now legal, well that's quite another matter as these days in America what is legal and what is rational don't always match.

[Caesar Soze]

Was he wearing a West Point ring?

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"But one recent poll showed that a majority of Americans still think Islam is a peaceful religion, not one that encourages violence against non-Muslims (54%-33%)."

The more the American people understand about Islam, the more that view will change.

[savagesusie]

We're not at war with all of Islam

We should be. The religion doesn't allow for any thinking which contradicts its teachings. Islam can't exist in a country with freedom. It is a very dangerous religion because it tolerates no other religion and treats women like cattle. You are allowed to lie to non-muslims and even kill them. People who want to practice Islam need to move to Mecca. They destroy whatever countries they dominate because they allow only sharia and kill all others.

[durasell]

No. But I suspect he was insane. Nobody crosses over to the BQE unless there's a major accident on the FDR. I retaliated by giving him a small tip.

[rusureitflies?]

Right - on all points, teach your post in Public Schools alongside other religions including Christianity... let the students compare the information.

[Rokke]

"In the context of, why we should throw caution to the wind, and place Muslims in an institution that trains our finest strategists and warriors. "

Two things...first, we've been doing it for decades. This isn't a new policy. Second...at the risk of belittling the quality of training at the Service Academies, you grossly overestimate the level of military training cadets and midshipmen receive at the Academies. There is very little exposure to anything classified, and most of the leadership training is essentially at the laboratory level. That is partially the reason all the Academies have such an active foreign exchange program. It is a good opportunity to expose our officer trainees to foreign cultures and an even better opportunity to expose foreigners to the best of ours. But the day any of them graduate, they are just another dumb second lieutenant with a lifetime of learning and training in front of them.

[durasell]

Islam can't exist in a country with freedom...




NYC has between 500,000 and 600,000 muslims living in it. The Arab community -- both christian and muslim -- dates back to the turn of the 20th century. For comparison, that's greater than the population of Wyoming.

[Rokke]

"It was policy that they not serve in the Pacific Theater."

Sigh. Are you denying that they did?

"More to the point, followers of Emperor were not allowed to serve."

It is safe to assume that acknowledged followers of Osama Bin Laden are not allowed to serve as well.

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"Sigh. Are you denying that they did?"

Very few did - and under non-Nisei officers. There was a reason for that.

"It is safe to assume that acknowledged followers of Osama Bin Laden are not allowed to serve as well."

What about followers of one of the countless Imams? Their RELIGION is the problem. Have you read the Koran?

[durasell]

Confederate Generals who attended West Point!

ADAMS, John 1846 (25)
ALEXANDER, Edward Porter 1857 (3)
ANDERSON, George Burgwyn 1852 (10)
ANDERSON, Joseph Reid 1836 (4)
ANDERSON, Richard Heron 1842 (40)
ANDERSON, Robert Houstoun 1857 (35)
BAKER, Laurence Simmons 1851 (42)
BARTON, Seth Maxwell 1849 (28)
BEALL, William Nelson Rector 1848 (30)
BEAUREGARD, Pierre Gustave Toutant 1838 (2)
BEE, Barnard Elliott 1845 (33)
BLANCHARD, Albert Gallatin 1829 (26)
BOGGS, William Robertson 1853 (4)
BOWEN, John Stevens 1853 (13)
BRAGG, Braxton 1837 (5)
BRYAN, Goode 1834 (25)
BUCKNER, Simon Bolivar 1844 (11)
BUFORD, Abraham 1841 (51)
CABELL, William Lewis 1850 (33)
CHAMBLISS, John Randolph Jr. 1853 (31)
CHILTON, Robert Hall 1837 (48)
COCKE, Philip St George 1832 (6)
COOPER, Samuel 1815 (36)
COSBY, George Blake 1852 (17)
CRITTENDEN, George Bibb 1832 (26)
CUMMING, Alfred 1849 (35)
DANIEL, Junius 1851 (33)
DAVIDSON, Henry Brevard 1853 (33)
DESHLER, James 1854 (7)
DONELSON, Daniel Smith 1825 (5)
DRAYTON, Thomas Fenwick 1828 (28)
DUNCAN, Johnson Kelly 1849 (5)
EARLY, Jubal Anderson 1837 (18)
ELZEY (JONES), Arnold 1837 (33)
EVANS, Nathan George 1848 (36)
EWELL, Richard Stoddert 1840 (13)
FERGUSON, Samuel Wragg 1857 (19)
FIELD, Charles William 1849 (27)
FORNEY, John Horace 1852 (22)
FRAZER, John Wesley 1849 (34)
FRENCH, Samuel Gibbs 1843 (14)
FROST, Daniel Marsh 1844 (4)
GARDNER, Franklin 1843 (17)
GARDNER, William Montgomery 1846 (55)
GARNETT, Richard Brooke 1841 (29)
GARNETT, Robert Seldon 1841 (27)
GATLIN, Richard Caswell 1832 (35)
GILMER, Jeremy Francis 1839 (4)
GORGAS, Josiah 1841 (6)
GRACIE, Archibald Jr. 1854 (14)
GRAYSON, John Breckinridge 1826 (22)
HARDEE, William Joseph 1838 (26)
HAWES, James Morrison 1845 (29)
HÉBERT, Louis 1845 (3)
HÉBERT, Paul Octave 1840 (1)
HELM, Benjamin Hardin 1851 (9)
HETH, Henry 1847 (38)
HILL, Ambrose Powell 1847 (15)
HILL, Daniel Harvey 1842 (28)
HOLMES, Theophilus Hunter 1829 (44)
HOOD, John Bell 1853 (44)
HUGER, Benjamin 1825 (8)
JACKSON, Thomas Jonathan 1846 (17)
JACKSON, William Hicks 1856 (38)
JOHNSON, Bushrod Rust 1840 (23)
JOHNSON, Edward 1838 (32)
JOHNSTON, Albert Sidney 1826 (8)
JOHNSTON, Joseph Eggleston 1829 (13)
JONES, David Rumph 1846 (41)
JONES, John Marshall 1841 (39)
JONES, Samuel 1841 (19)
JONES, William Edmondson 1848 (10)
JORDAN, Thomas 1840 (41)
LAWTON, Alexander Robert 1839 (13)
LEADBETTER, Danville 1836 (3)
LEE, Fitzhugh 1856 (45)
LEE, George Washington Custis 1854 (1)
LEE, Robert Edward 1829 (2)
LEE, Stephen Dill 1854 (17)
LOMAX, Lunsford Lindsay 1856 (21)
LONG, Armistead Lindsay 1850 (17)
LONGSTREET, James 1842 (54)
LOVELL, Mansfield 1842 (9)
LYON, Hylan Benton 1856 (19)
MACKALL, William Whann 1837 (8)
MAGRUDER, John Bankhead 1830 (15)
MAJOR, James Patrick 1856 (23)
MARMADUKE, John Sappington 1857 (30)
MARSHALL, Humphrey 1832 (42)
MARTIN, James Green 1840 (14)
MAURY, Dabney Herndon 1846 (37)
MAXEY, Samuel Bell 1846 (58)
MCCOWN, John Porter 1840 (10)
MCINTOSH, James McQueen 1849 (43)
MCLAWS, Lafayette 1842 (48)
MERCER, Hugh Weedon 1828 (3)
MOORE, John Creed 1849 (17)
MOUTON, Jean Jacques Alfred Alexander 1850 (38)
NICHOLLS, Francis Redding Tillou 1855 (12)
NORTHROP, Lucius Bellinger 1831 (22)
PEGRAM, John 1854 (10)
PEMBERTON, John Clifford 1837 (27)
PENDER, William Dorsey 1854 (19)
PENDLETON, William Nelson 1830 (5)
PICKETT, George Edward 1846 (59)
POLK, Leonidas 1827 (8)
RAINS, Gabriel James 1827 (13)
RAMSEUR, Stephen Dodson 1860 (14)
RANSOM, Robert Jr 1850 (18)
REYNOLDS, Alexander Welch 1838 (35)
RIPLEY, Roswell Sabine 1843 (7)
ROBERTSON, Beverly Holcombe 1849 (25)
RUGGLES, Daniel 1833 (34)
SEARS, Claudius Wistar 1841 (31)
SHOUP, Francis Asbury 1855 (15)
SIBLEY, Henry Hopkins 1838 (31)
SMITH, Edmund Kirby 1845 (25)
SMITH, Gustavus Woodson 1842 (8)
SMITH, James Argyle 1853 (45)
SMITH, Martin Luther 1842 (16)
SMITH, William Duncan 1846 (35)
STEELE, William 1840 (31)
STEUART, George Hume 1848 (37)
STEVENS, Walter Husted 1848 (4)
STEVENSON, Carter Littlepage 1838 (42)
STEWART, Alexander Peter 1842 (12)
STUART, James Ewell Brown 1854 (13)
THOMAS, Bryan Morel 1858 (22)
TILGHMAN, Lloyd 1836 (46)
TRAPIER, James Heyward 1838 (3)
TRIMBLE, Isaac Ridgeway 1822 (17)
VAN DORN, Earl 1842 (52)
VILLEPIGUE, John Bordenave 1854 (22)
WALKER, Henry Harrison 1853 (41)
WALKER, Lucius Marshall 1850 (15)
WALKER, William Henry Talbot 1837 (46)
WAYNE, Henry Constantine 1838 (14)
WHEELER, Joseph 1859 (19)
WHITING, William Henry Chase 1845 (1)
WILCOX, Cadmus Marcellus 1846 (54)
WINDER, Charles Sidney 1850 (22)
WINDER, John Henry 1820 (11)
WITHERS, Jones Mitchell 1835 (44)

Those who departed before graduation
Name Dates
ARMISTEAD, Lewis Addison Entered West Point 1834; resigned 1836.
DEARING, James Entered West Point 1858; resigned April 1861.
FRY, Birkett Davenport Entered West Point 1842; resigned 1843.
GOGGIN, James Monroe Entered West Point 1838; did not graduate.
HUMPHREYS, Benjamin Grubb Entered West Point 1825; dismissed 1826.
KELLY, John Herbert Entered West Point 1857; resigned 1860.
KIRKLAND, William Whedbee Entered West Point 1852; resigned 1855.
LIDDELL, St John Richardson Entered West Point 1833; dismissed 1835.
ROBERTSON, Felix Huston Entered West Point 1857; resigned January 1861.
ROSSER, Thomas Lafayette Entered West Point 1856; resigned April 1861.
STOVALL, Marcellus Augustus Entered West Point 1836; resigned 1837.
YOUNG, Pierce Manning Butler Entered West Point; resigned May 1861.

[The KG9 Kid]

American troops will never fire on the American people.

... Oh, wait.

[Alfonso1000]

The point is that legal types like yourself always look at everything from a legal perspective, and regardless of what you want to claim, government and military lawyers inacted many of the policies that made America vulnerable leading up to 9/11.

"You don't have any idea what is involved in our nuclear launch doctrine and procedures do you? No idea about the depth of background investigations, psychological profiling and constant monitoring. Why base your argument on something you know very little about?"

Yes because we all know that America's nuclear technology has never been stolen or compromised, and the US has never had any moles in the intelligence services or military. It is also unlikely that terrorists would consult us on our launch doctrine if they were to hijack our weapons with the aid of someone on the inside.