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Islam: A religion for Losers
http://www.freerepublic.com/ ^ | 10-21-2006 | Me

Posted on 10/21/2006 8:07:20 AM PDT by tcostell

You would think that a belief system where the most lauded members are those who blow themselves up would have some serious marketing problems.  I mean how exactly do you get rational post-secular westerners to buy into an idea like that?  But Islam is the world’s fastest growing religion none the less.  And much of it's growth is owed to its rapid conversion of certain segments of western society.


  At a glance it defies all logic, but it's true.  It's a commonly held view that when a person stops believing in organized religion they don't then believe in nothing, but begin to believe in anything.  This describes the state of many in the post-secular west.  And for people in that mental and emotional state, divorced from their society without any common emotional ground to bind them to their family and community, Islam apparently has some intrinsic appeal.  But this then begs the question "Who are these people?”  Who would be willing to give up so much of the promise of the 21st century west for the cold restricted structure of 15th century Islam?  Who would be prepared to trade the "We hope you believe but it's really up to you" optimism of western theology for the choice between unyielding submission to the political hierarchy of the faith, or the business end of the faithful's sword?


  Well in a word... its losers.  Islam is growing in the western world by picking the low hanging fruit of society.   Those most lacking in the skills it takes to succeed in the west, are irresistibly drawn to Islam.  In a single stroke, Islam provides not only the craved for structure of a rigid life and a ready political apparatus which blames others for their hardships, but provides the promise of eternal reward in heaven for the very characteristics which have brought them only failure in the west.  In short, it's a religion which rewards the loser for the very things which make them a loser, and encourages them to use violence to bring the rest of society down to their level.  This is why it's becomes such a popular faith in the US prison systems, and why it's growing so rapidly among the discontented portions of western society.  Whatever your personal failure, Islam has an explanation that makes it clear that someone else is responsible. 


  In the history of man, no society has so successfully provided each individual with opportunity like the United States.  In the US, the circumstances of your birth don't matter, nor does your race, nor your gender, or anything else other than your own personal initiative.  In America, both men and women from every religious, racial, ethnic, and economic subgroup have continually reached the pinnacle of success in their chosen fields.  And the world over it's widely regarded as fact that if you are truly extraordinary at something, then America is where you will receive the greatest reward for it.  America loves a winner, and our society rewards them well.  We recruit them in every slice of life, from athletes, to engineers, to writers to educators, and everything else.  If there is a greatest ditch digger on the planet, then the odds would be that he's digging a ditch somewhere in the US.  And it's the very idea “that success can come to anyone" which makes the US what it is. 


  But that isn't to say that it’s a perfect meritocracy where only those who deserve it are rewarded.  It's still a society of men, and many of those men, for whatever reason, will do what they must to stand in the way of others as well.  So while the opportunity is clearly there, that alone is not a guarantee of success.  Some people, for whatever reason, lack the initiative, or the determination, or sometimes even the intelligence to achieve the same level of success as others in their chosen field.  But the question of success is not what you start out with in life, but what you do with it.  The people who achieve success are usually those who when faced with an obstacle will work harder, jump higher, run faster, and do whatever is necessary to get around it.  Success isn't defined by talent as much as it is by determination. But some people don't react that way.  Some people, when faced with an obstacle, will be quick to abandon their effort, and begin blaming others for their troubles.  They fail to take responsibility, and instead look to find a scapegoat.  And along comes Islam.


  The very core concept of Islam is the unconditional surrender to the will of Allah.  At its very heart, Islam encourages its faithful to not take responsibility for the circumstances of their life.  And from that basis all other Islamic law follows.  Have you had trouble with women?  No problem... under Islam a woman is more a piece of property than a person, so you will be able to command, and they must obey, if not... it's the sword or stoning.  Have you had trouble in business? No problem... under Islam, most worldly matters of commerce are left to the Dhimmi, those members of the unfaithful tolerated under Islam like slaves thanks to the high taxes paid by them for the right to survive.  But if the taxes should stop flowing, or the Dhimmi become defiant, then Islam provides a solution that even a loser can understand, again, it's the sword.  On and on, Islamic law makes it clear that if you are among the faithful, then anytime the world fails to meet your expectations, the perfectly acceptable and moral solution is violence.


  In short, Islam is a belief system which codifies a theological structure where those people least capable of achieving success on their own gain the political means of either taking or restricting the success of others by force.  It’s a triumph of violence as the means to realize the will of god, over the "reason" of the western world.  And in the west, people who choose violence over reason are losers.  And so it grows in the prisons of the US, and the suburban slums of Paris.  It gathers strength from the bottom, speaking a language that the losers of the west can understand.  "Obey" they say, "Obey, and we will give the means to take your revenge on a society that has left you behind.  Obey, and we will make you mighty, obey and your violence will be the last expression of the will of god."


  What those losers who convert fail to realize however, is that the price for their vengeance, and the cost of their scapegoat, is that they too become a slave.  If they aren’t responsible for the bad things that happen to them, then they aren't responsible for the good that comes to them either.  There may be no failure for them under Islam, but then there will be no triumph for them as well.  And should they achieve some moment of greatness, then they will quickly find that they too may be guilty of some obscure violation of sharia, and that the sword of Islam cuts both ways.


  For myself, I may not be the most successful man I know, or for that matter the most faithful, but my success and my failures all belong to me.  And for that alone, I'll stick to the reason of the west over the violence of Islam, anyday.    


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: erichoffer; fanatics; islam; rop; thetruebeliever; truebeliever
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To: fish hawk
Here's a link to an article that mentions that conversions to Christianity from Islam are growing in Indonesia, where there are an estimated 20 million Christians.

http://www.leaderu.com/theology/islaminamerica.html

It also mentions the book, The Next Christendom: The Coming of Global Christianity, Philip Jenkins, which cites the rapid growth of Christianity in Africa, Aisa and Latin America. The book further notes that despite the rising number of Islamic immigrants to the U.S., there are far higher numbers of Christian immigrants.

41 posted on 10/21/2006 11:17:31 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: fish hawk

Here's a link to a story about the rise of Islamic converts to Christianity in Kashmir, the area of India that has been the source of tensions between India and Pakistan.

http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/16-31Jul04-Print-Edition/163107200455.htm


42 posted on 10/21/2006 11:19:18 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: tcostell

All because Abraham's wife thought she was too old to have chaildren


43 posted on 10/21/2006 11:19:22 AM PDT by MaineVoter2002 (If you dont vote on election day, then who are you electing?)
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To: WashingtonSource

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to get me some articles on the subject. Aloha


44 posted on 10/21/2006 11:22:48 AM PDT by fish hawk
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To: fish hawk

Here's a link to the web site, "Muslims for Christ." You can bet this will never be covered by the DBM.

http://www.exmuslim.com/


45 posted on 10/21/2006 11:25:00 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: fish hawk

While this goes against my theme, you'll be interested in this link to a piece by Daniel Pipes, which reveals that the ranks of Muslim terrorists are being filled by Christian converts to Islam.

http://acuf.org/issues/issue50/051222cul.asp


46 posted on 10/21/2006 11:28:15 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: HitmanLV
Well I guess the mistake I'm making is assuming that you are somehow trying to make Christianity and Islam seem equivalent by that view.

In my view, offering the emotional strength to take personal responsibility for your actions, and the political authority to punish those who made you feel bad is not the same thing, even if they both might appeal to someone who "has less". I believe there is a fundamental difference between encouraging someone to take responsibility and authorizing them to take retribution.

Do you mean to say otherwise? Is it your view that because both Christianity and Islam offer moral solutions to those with less, that they are therefore the same somehow?

47 posted on 10/21/2006 11:28:42 AM PDT by tcostell (MOLON LABE)
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To: tcostell
when a person stops believing in organized religion they don't then believe in nothing, but begin to believe in anything

In other words, their minds are so open their brains fall out.

48 posted on 10/21/2006 11:34:25 AM PDT by redheadtoo
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To: tcostell
No, but that's close to my point.

Both Christianity and Islam offer something hopeful for those with less, who some might characterize was 'losers.'

But Christianity and Islam offer different moral codes, rituals, conducts. They are clearly not the same, and they clearly take their followers to different places.

I think both religions have aspects that appeal to what most people would call 'losers.' That's not a bad thing, in itself. And I wouldn't characterize Christianity as a religion exclusively or largely for losers.
49 posted on 10/21/2006 11:35:42 AM PDT by HitmanLV ("If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do succeed." - Jerry 'Curly' Howard)
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To: fish hawk

Here's a link to a story about converts from Islam within Islamic countries that appeared in Christianity Today. It includes converts in Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Bangladesh and others. This report claims there has been an increase in the number of people who attend underground churches in North Africa from a tiny 2,000 Christians 10 years ago to 50,000 today. It says Christianity is growing faster than Islam in Bangladesh -- the increase in the number of Christians each year is growing at a rate twice that of the growth rate of the population.

http://www.exmuslim.com/khaled/doors.htm


50 posted on 10/21/2006 11:36:12 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: fish hawk

Here's a link to story that finds that the number of Christans in Africa, 390 million, is 3 times the level it was 35 years ago. Christianity is spreading like wildfire in sub-Saharan Africa.

http://world.christianpost.com/article/20050228/260.htm


51 posted on 10/21/2006 11:38:32 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: tcostell
how exactly do you get rational post-secular westerners to buy into an idea like that?

A post-secular westerner may likely be islamic

52 posted on 10/21/2006 11:40:48 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek

Good points. Even small number of organized losers can do a lot of harm, as can large numbers of not-so-organized losers.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should underestimate the power of losers in large numbers. Quite the opposite. Especially when they think they have nothing much to lose in this world, but a whole lot to gain somewhere else.

I don't see any smugness or overconfidence about this writing. Just an explanation of one of the things that draws converts to a so called "religion" where the separation of church and state is nonexistent.




53 posted on 10/21/2006 11:58:17 AM PDT by Motherhood IS a career
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To: greasepaint

Actually, yes... very much like communism!


54 posted on 10/21/2006 12:00:20 PM PDT by Motherhood IS a career
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To: Rummyfan
islam (I refuse to capitalize the word) means literally I submit.

I WILL NOT SUBMIT

http://www.cafepress.com/hotairshop.74650431

55 posted on 10/21/2006 12:07:19 PM PDT by Motherhood IS a career
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To: x

I don't think anyone is criticizing the concept of getting help from a "higher power." In other words, no one is knocking religious faith.

But islam, as evidenced by the behavior of so many muslims around the world, has less to do with faith or comfort or aid and more to do with a bloodlust for "infidels" and those who are to "blame" for what muslims lack.



56 posted on 10/21/2006 12:19:57 PM PDT by Motherhood IS a career
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To: Leftism is Mentally Deranged

Are you suggesting that "The Nation of Islam" is not really about religion???


57 posted on 10/21/2006 12:23:07 PM PDT by Motherhood IS a career
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To: HitmanLV

Then look at #s 31 and 32.


58 posted on 10/21/2006 12:33:15 PM PDT by Motherhood IS a career
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To: HitmanLV

Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?


Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.





I don't read this as an endorsement against material achievement or as something that highlights the virtues of poverty v. wealth. It seems to me that Jesus was trying to say that you can't buy your way into heaven. That the bottom line is: "With God all things are possible. "

Of course, I'm not a religious scholar and this is just my opinion.


59 posted on 10/21/2006 12:46:00 PM PDT by Motherhood IS a career
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To: WashingtonSource

Muslims for Christ...

You mean Ex-muslims.

This is all good news. (Or not so news, whichever the case may be, but it's reassuring that the demographics aren't completely hopeless.)


60 posted on 10/21/2006 12:51:03 PM PDT by Motherhood IS a career
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