Skip to comments.Signs are big issue as attorney general considers gun regulations (Kansas)
Posted on 10/11/2006 10:38:36 PM PDT by neverdem
TOPEKA, Kan. - Signs - their color, their size and what they would say - appear to be the biggest issue as the state considers new regulations to accompany a law permitting Kansans to carry concealed guns.
The attorney general's office had a hearing Tuesday on proposed regulations spelling out such things as the qualifications for people who teach weapons safety courses, the content of those courses and that someone must hit the target 18 of 25 times to obtain a permit to carry a concealed gun.
Signs are covered by the proposed regulations because the law, enacted earlier this year, permits businesses to ban hidden guns on their premises, but it requires them to post their policy so gun owners know of it. The attorney general's office hopes to have regulations in place by early November.
The first proposed regulation advanced by the attorney general's office would have required a yellow sign, at least 8 1/2 inches by 11 inches, with black letters and a picture of a gun on it. Much of the feedback to it was negative, from business groups worried about a lack of flexibility and from people who thought the prototype was ugly.
"Folks were not happy - businesses like banks and so forth - weren't happy with the yellow," said Deputy Attorney General Julene Miller, who presided over Tuesday's hearings. "We were trying come up with something that would be obvious to a person carrying a concealed weapon. Hopefully, they could see it before they even reached the door."
During the hearing, Miller unveiled a new, simpler design, a black silhouette of a gun on a white background, surrounded by a red circle, with a red slash through it - the concealed carry equivalent of internationally known signs for "No."
The new design also mandates no words, whereas the first prototype would have required "Concealed carry of handguns prohibited on premises" in letters at least a half-inch in size.
Business groups' representatives applauded the change, saying the simpler sign would be easier to understand - even for people who don't speak English. They also said the new design would fit better with their businesses.
"If you have a crowded window, a yellow sign, it might not stand out," said Doug Wareham, of the Kansas Bankers Association.
But Lawrence resident Richard Dyer said the words should remain - and include "lawful" before "concealed carry." That, he said, would be truth in advertising, letting people know that they couldn't protect themselves from criminals in a certain business.
"Make sure he knows and everybody else knows that he is restricting the law-abiding, peaceful citizens," said Dyer, who hasn't decided whether he'll seek a permit. "The plain sign with no verbiage, somebody might say, 'Well, that will keep a criminal out.' No it won't."
Legislators overrode Gov. Kathleen Sebelius' veto in March to enact the law. It took effect July 1, but the first permits won't be issued until Jan. 1. Residents qualify if, among other things, they are U.S. citizens, over 21 and have completed eight hours of training. Fees are $150, and permits are good for four years.
The law does ban concealed guns in certain locations, including courthouses, schools, churches and polling places on Election Day. Carrying a concealed weapon where it is prohibited is a misdemeanor.
But if someone is going to be prosecuted for bringing a concealed gun into a business, that business must post a sign - hence Tuesday's hearing. Miller said the attorney general wants to make sure businesses aren't posting signs that are too small to see.
On the Net:
Concealed carry information: http://www.ksag.org/Concealed_Weapon/Weapon.htm
LOL. I have never seen that one!
Once again, it looks like ev'rythin's up-to-date in Kansas City.
I think the signs are a supercool idea; they'll help all the CW permit holders figure out right away which businesses not to patronize.
I don't know who's more stupid, the bureaucrats who came up with the idea of the signs or the businesses that will actually use them.
How are they going to know anyway? Systematic searches of every car in the lot?
They don't want our "ugly guns" in their place, but they don't want the ugly sign saying so either... like the sign would really matter to me anyway...
Look to SC for guidance on gun prohibition signs. Without a tight statute the gun-grabbers will entrap and lie. E.g., a venue without 'doors' requires as four feet by three feet gun prohibition sign.
Without a warrant or the keys, I do not see how they can...
The businesses with these signs will be entered by criminals carrying guns and planning to use them for hold ups.
Criminals carrying guns will avoid businesses where there are no signs.
PROHIBITING HANDGUNS IN A BUSINESS OR OTHER ENTITY
In order to provide notice that entry on property by a license holder with a concealed handgun is forbidden, Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(A) requires that a written communication contain the following language:
| "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."
"CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."
Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(B) further states that a sign must meet the following requirements:
The size (due to the 1" letter height) makes it big and unattractive. ;-)
The only places I've ever seen them is on hospitals and banks...
Well, a week or so ago, as we were about to enter a credit union, my wife said, "Ooops! '30.06' sign!"
We returned to our vehicle and secured our hardware -- and, then, took care of our financial dealings...
No need to volunteer for a violation that would endanger our CHLs...
(OTOH, no questions concerning my "deep backup piece" allowed...) '-)
"Without a warrant or the keys, I do not see how they can..."
They cannot search your car, they can say open the car or find new work.
No facility that receives a penny of public funds should be allowed to prohibit guns on its premises unless it provides free secure storage lockers.
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