China denounces "brazen" North Korea nuclear test

Reuters ^ | 10/09/06

[nuconvert]

"N. Korea already indicated that they won't be a lapdog of China."

Is that a joke?

[djf]

There are already nukes in Japan. Do you honestly think we would let a partner like Japan be undefended?

The point now is if Japan owning up to nukes will scare the pants off of Kim.

[TigerLikesRooster]

Re #41

N. Korea is now a pit bull. They are not big on following instructions.:)

[nuconvert]

You mean turning on their master. In that case, Kim Jung-il's days are truly numbered.

[TomHarkinIsNotFromIowa]

Russia, China, North Korea. Everyone assumes the cold war is over. HA! The tactics and strategy has changed. If anyone is thinking that there is no game plan. They are fooling themselves. Why would China attack our computers the same week of "The Test"? Why would China try to blind our satellites? Russia? They killed a reporter without worry. Does any one here play Chess? Threats happen all over the board. While the real game keeps going on.

[Steel Wolf]

Not if they want to remain under the American conventional and nuclear umbrella.

There's no reason to assume that they will. Japan has a piece of paper saying that America will come to the rescue. That's fine, and all, but it's not the same as having power yourself. Power to hit first. Power to hit back in the way you choose. Power to decide the fate of your own nation.

When faced with the Soviet Union, everyone knew the ground rules. Now, there are no rules. It's a much more fluid world, and we're not the same country we were 50 years ago. Expecting other nations to rely on our support in exchange for staying unarmed made sense in a world with a half dozen nuclear powers. It makes a lot less sense now.

[Steel Wolf]

You mean turning on their master. In that case, Kim Jung-il's days are truly numbered.

Just the opposite. Kim's doing what he needs to do in order to survive. The cold war is over, and global communism is dead. Forget what you learned before, because the old equation has changed. While the Koreans and Chinese have historical ties, it's hardly one of master and servant.

The new relationship is simply. China wants to be a big power, and every step they take in that direction takes them further away from North Korea.

North Korea wants to survive, and they can't count on the old Communist powers to back them anymore. Nuclear weapons are they only way to scare the world into compliance.

[Dr. Marten]

This is a product of China's own doing. If you continue to feed a monster, it will continue to grow and eventually it will get so big that you can no longer control it.

[nuconvert]

I partially agree with you. Yes, Kim Jung-Il is doing what he thinks he needs to, for whatever 'reasons'. (maybe just his legacy, who knows)
But I see N.K. as the surrogate that performs dirty work that China doesn't want to be directly identified with (and therefore keeps attention on N.K. and not China, and allows China to look like it's playing as an ally with it's international business partners) and as the buffer zone (or no man's land) between China and S. Korea/U.S. They have N.K. at the end of a long leash. The Chinese can hold them away, thereby distancing themselves and appearing as though N.K. is a totally independent entity. If necessary, they will squash Kim Jung-Il, and put someone in place that listens better.

[Al Gator]

I don't know about the "team".

There is great hostility and more than a little bit of shooting going on between the two at the border.

Earlier this year, a Chinese freight train crossed over to deliver a load.

The Koreans marched the entire train crew back to the border at gun point.... without the train or payament for the load.

Good team, eh?

[Al Gator]

Japan can go nuke in a lightning stroke.

Japan has all the parallel technology AND a good supply of material.

The LDP has long waited for this little scenario to develop so that they could put a stake in the heart of the occupation constitution once and for all, without the streets exploding with lefties and other yahoos.

Japan will militarize and with China doing its millenium cycle muscle flexing, its about time.

[LadyNavyVet]

The Japanese also reimburse the US for at least half the cost of keeping our forces there, and have for many years. The Japanese Self Defense Forces are small, but they are well-equipped, well-trained, and extremely professional. They can and will ramp up to be a formidable military in very short order.

I bet there are some very worried guys in Beijing right now.

[LibLieSlayer]

Yes, and Japan will put China in check... look for chicoms to find a civil way do deal with this newly emerged power!

The Japanese know something about kickin' chicom bootay!

LLS

[Al Gator]

Actually, I'm seeing that China has already started a major propaganda offensive against Japan. Its kind of gentle right now, but as Japan modernizes, look for it to get REAL belligerent, real fast.

The streets of Tokyo have been relatively and uncharacteristically quiet, even when the Diet deployed troops to Iraq. (in the bad old days of yesteryear, the country would have come to a complete stop with lefties everywhere) The Chinese are more concerned about that phenomenon than anything. Count on it.

[chilepepper]

Because the cat is out of the bag - the US umbrella was not enough to keep NK from testing a nuclear device, a device which Japan is not supposed to have or desire. I think if the nut in Pyongyang has a bomb, Japan will want some insurance in case a weak Carter/Kerry/Clinton type president wins in 2008.

Of course, IMHO Japan probably *already has* nuclear bombs designed, fissile material squirreled away, and the production lines ready to build weapons on short notice.

What remains is for them to make this public to remove any advantage NK believes that it has over Japan in nuclear weapons...

[LibLieSlayer]

I say we give Japan whatever they need. They will not turn their back on us, and will prove to be one of the anchors of our strength in the 21st Century.

LLS

[Zhang Fei]

I don't know about the "team". There is great hostility and more than a little bit of shooting going on between the two at the border. Earlier this year, a Chinese freight train crossed over to deliver a load. The Koreans marched the entire train crew back to the border at gun point.... without the train or payament for the load. Good team, eh?

And who's responsible for coming up with that story? In the unlikely event that it's true, why is China still feeding and providing fuel to North Korea? Don't tell me refugees, because China could use some low-cost labor (not to mention new organ donors).

[Zhang Fei]

Because the cat is out of the bag - the US umbrella was not enough to keep NK from testing a nuclear device, a device which Japan is not supposed to have or desire. I think if the nut in Pyongyang has a bomb, Japan will want some insurance in case a weak Carter/Kerry/Clinton type president wins in 2008.

If Japan splits off from the nuclear and conventional umbrella provided by Uncle Sam, China will have achieved its objective in getting Kim to up the ante - to confront Japan alone, instead of Japan and Uncle Sam. China also gets to cut Japan off from supporting the US over a Taiwan flare-up. The abrogation of the US-Japan mutual defense pact would also mean the withdrawal of US troops from Japan, which would increase the American response time if China invades Taiwan.

I really can't see how a nuclear Japan that is no longer formally allied with the US is bad for China. Does anyone think Japan would use nukes over the disputed Senkaku Islands? The fact is that a nuclear Japan is a Japan that faces China alone - without an American tripwire force to oblige a US president to come to Japan's rescue either in territorial disputes or disputes over sea lanes.

[Al Gator]

China is still the number one provider of food and fuel, but I guess the Chinese think they get more benefit from the ongoing trade, even with problems, than with no trade.

One month ago, PBS ran a documentary on Korean refugees from the north, going into China. Seems that right now, they are not too welcome, the Chinese have been rounding them up big time and shipping them back. Many of the Koreans are hidding.

I'll look up the other story for you. I think it was from South Korea or Japan.

[Zhang Fei]

One month ago, PBS ran a documentary on Korean refugees from the north, going into China. Seems that right now, they are not too welcome, the Chinese have been rounding them up big time and shipping them back. Many of the Koreans are hidding.

If the entire North Korean population moves to China, Kim has no country. China is deporting those people to keep North Korea afloat. East Germany's Communist government collapsed because people were leaving in droves for West Germany via Hungary. If North Korea decamps for China, South Korea can unify the country without firing a shot. That's not what China wants.