Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Kuelap - The Machu Picchu Of Northern Peru (Chachapoyas - White, blonde haired people)
kuelap Peru.com ^ | 10-7-2006

Posted on 10/07/2006 3:43:02 PM PDT by blam

Kuelap – the Machu Picchu of Northern Peru.

The mysterious super fortress of the Chachapoyan Cloud People

Kuelap is the largest building structure of the Americas. It is estimated to contain 3 times more material than Egypt’s largest pyramid. Peru considers Kuelap to be as good as Machu Picchu and is trying to make this its equal 2nd major destination. It is twice as old as the Incas and in remarkably better condition before restoration.

Kuelap is an unknown giant just waking up. Peru is a huge country the size of the 5 west coast states, California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, and Montana. At present 99% of the tourists only go from Lima to the south while only 1% goes to the void north of Lima. Until this new century, the largest unexplored mountains in the in the Americas was in this zone. The Andes would stretch from San Francisco to London, with only the Himalayans higher. When the Spanish arrived, the Incas ruled the Andes.

The reason this zone is America's best kept secret is that the first dirt vehicle road came only 35 years ago. Previous to this the natives say that few came or went by their only access, -- a two-month walk on ancient Inca major routes. One “Inca highway” goes through here in a partially explored zone from Columbia to the Inca heartland. Another unexplored lateral route goes from Levanto and Kuelap to the coast through Cajamarca where the Inca was captured. This former Kuelap East-West road may have been the “gold and feather route” used by the spectacular Moche and Chimu cultures from the coast to the Moyobamba jungles zone. No other cultures reached their superior level of goldsmiths, and hundreds of pyramids.

Kuelap’s mystery has barely been studied. Construction began about 800AD at the same time that the Andes’ most spectacular empire began its expansion from Bolivia. This was the Tiahuanaco or Wari Empire, known as “The Golden City Building Era of the Andes”, or the Middle Horizon. The Wari (or Huari) built most of the “Inca roads and trails” and almost every ancient city. They were in power 300 years compared to less than 100 years of the Incas. The Wari evolved to an empire of cities sustained by a sophisticated transportation system implying specialization of labor, engineers, artisans, etc. Today the Wari Empire is barely known because the Spanish did not discover and document them with their gold. A parallel comparison would be similar to the Mayans which the Spanish ignored because of their decline in power and gold. Today the world’s interest in the Mayan Culture has grown to pass the Aztecs, as studies reveal their ability to write and build spectacular cities & structures. A great reference book about the complete Andes history is “The People and Cultures of Ancient Peru” by Luis Lambrates, translated into English by the Smithsonian Institution Press.

Now it seems that Kuelap was not built by the empire but rather a confederation of the Chachapoyan Cloud People to stop the Wari invasion. A relative short distance across the Marinon River was the most advanced stronghold cities of the Wari in the north of Peru at Cajamarca and Huamachuco. A glaring fact is that on the other side of the river, all of the pottery and artifacts mirrors the Bolivian style of the empire. The total lack of Wari artifacts in this zone would indicate the Wari either could not defeat the Chachapoyans, -- or were themselves defeated at Kuelap causing the collapse of the empire at that time.

The greatest mystery of the Chachapoyan Cloud People was, “who were they”? How would they know to start construction of mountain top citadels and fortresses 250 years before the Wari advanced to conquer them? Was it a coincident that Kuelap was completed at just the right time to stop them? John Hemming wrote in “Conquest of the Incas” that Kuelap was the strongest fortification in the Americas, and if the Inca could have made a stand there, - the Spanish horses and artillery would be useless and history might have been different today. Keith Muscutt wrote in his book that this zone was so heavily populated in the past, -- it would be unlikely today to go to any likely peak in the cloud forest, and NOT FIND a lost stone citadel. Being made of stone, these ruins can be found today. I have been approached 10 times in the last couple of years by pioneers wanting me to see an “undiscovered ruins” they have found on their land.

Vanquished cultures of the Andes usually were displaced to lower areas and the jungles. An interesting fact was the Incas first began their conquest after Inca Pachacutec defeated the Chancas from Wari. At that time the Chancas were the former Wari Empire culture, - but now in decline. Later when the Incas were approaching their peak, the former Wari nation bolted and fled from the Inca influence. Their king said that their elite class were like the Incas in that they came from a strange land elsewhere, so their pride wouldn’t allow them to remain under Inca domination. So, where did the former Wari flee as the most secure place of the entire Andes? They fled down in the lower slopes below Kuelap in the jungle of Lamas. Did they perceive that the Incas couldn’t defeat the Chachapoyans to get to them? Even today these former Wari people contrast drastically in their customs, clothing and appearance from the jungle cultures. Now ANOTHER large stretch of speculation of displaced cultures being forced to lower jungle areas. PERHAPS one could conclude and believe a predominance of the fair skin and often blond people living in the nearby jungle of Rodrigues de Mendoza were the former Chachapoyan Cloud People?

Inca chronicles and legends persist that the Cloud People were tall fair (skin and hair) warriors. This is reinforced by an unusually large proportion of blond, fair natives in this zone who know of no European ancestry. However Julio C. Tello and anthropologists speculate the Chachapoyans may have been a jungle culture that migrated there through the Magdalena Valley of Columbia, and preferred the mountaintops. Whatever case, the Cloud People don’t fit the pattern of other Andeans. They lived behind walls in well crafted stone round houses with a pointed thatch “tepee” roof. One would suspect they farmed better land below the cloud forest, which wasn’t leached out and eroded, but lived on the peaks.

This zone gets seasonal rains from November to April, but Kuelap is always accessible. The dry season is from June to October but still has brief showers that are usually tiny droplets. This is caused by moist air of the jungle, pushed up over the peaks causing it to chill. This humid air condensates forming almost perpetual clouds, -- just before the droplets get large enough to rain. In this environment air plants dominate so bromeliads, orchids and moss cover the trees and stone citadels. Rapid clouds coming and going create photogenic panoramas adding a veiled mystery to the peaks.

This zone is called “la ceja de la selva”, - meaning the eyebrow of the Amazon. Above the ceja is the nightly freeze line which is a bald grassland high on the crest of the cordillera. Below the cloud forest are often desert river valleys where often only cactus will grow. A dense forest forms a band 2/3 of the way up the cordillera, resembling an eyebrow overlooking the Amazon Basin. After the clouds were chilled being pushed over the peaks, they dive downwards and warm up so the vapor turns to gasses, and the clouds disappear before your eyes. There are spectacular rainbows every day. The rainfall may be a drastic 2 to 3 meters difference from the valleys to the peaks and only a very few kilometers vertically away. All of this creates thousands of mini ecological zones, depending on elevation, sun orientation or prevailing winds, etc. The Incas had access to many jungle medicines, -- but a majority of their best medical plants were adapted to these mini-ecological zones. Today’s fad is to search for lower jungle medical plants while neglecting these more likely ones at higher altitudes, which have even a greater threat of deforestation.

Kuelap’s five walls inside of walls contain over 400 buildings. Each wall is from one to two telephone poles high with its 2nd level walls being the highest, extending a kilometer along a mountain ridge overlooking the Utcabamba River. Some think Kuelap was positioned to defend the Gran Vilaya region that was heavily populated behind Kuelap and the cordillera. There are some mysterious structures inside the fortress. One is a large cone shaped stone structure, defying gravity with the top much larger diameter than the bottom. Now the inside of this “tenador” (ink well), is shaped like a rose bud vase, - or a light bulb without the plug. The top hole is about ½ meter diameter, and a few meters down below, it opens into a large circular room. Some think it was a prison. Others think it was an oracle observatory where the shaman can be inside to observe a special star pass over “the lens” to signal an exact time or event of the year. A separate odd stone structure is an 8 pointed star with the longest 4 points pointing EXACTLY to north, south, east & west. Now at the north end a high stone tower is called the mitador, or observatory. From here signals could be sent to Choctomal that could relay the signal around the valley’s bend to another ruins high on the Abra Yumal Pass. This would then relay the signal to Gran Vilaya (which some think Kuelap was built to defend).


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: blonde; chachapoyas; chimu; cloud; fairskinned; godsgravesglyphs; huari; kuelap; machu; meadowcroft; moche; people; peru; pichu; wari; white
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101 next last
To: Fred Nerks

BTW, not one mention of any DNA testing.


61 posted on 10/08/2006 7:12:54 PM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: blam

Good heavens no!

Think of the careers at stake, the grants dried up, the mountains of theories and publications suddenly out of date...anthropologists with egg on their face...entire museum collections provenance in doubt!

Who's going to give them money for that?



Now, where's that tinfoil hat?


62 posted on 10/08/2006 7:24:08 PM PDT by Fred Nerks ("Illegitimi non carborundum",)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: blam

Kuelap was re-discovered in the 1840s by a judge from the nearby town of Chachapoyas. I don't know where the "35 years ago" comes from, although it has remained relatively unkown.

I went to Kuelap (fairly accessible) and several other remote sites (accessible only by several days' journey on horseback and then straight up the mountains on foot) in Chachapoyas in 1997.

From what I understand, the "blonde hair, blue eyes" is a bit of an exaggeration. They had already been conquered and dispersed by the Inca at the time of the European invasion. Spanish accounts say the Chachapoyas were the "whitest" of the native inhabitants, but this doesn't mean much without closer archaeological or DNA studies.

I will say this - people living in the area in small towns and remote villages in Chachapoyas today do seem to exhibit Caucasian features, much more so than people living in other parts of Peru. They could pass for Spanish peasants, whereas in most of the rest of Peru, they are unmistakably Andean Amerind. They don't speak Quechua, either. The region used to be heavily populated, as evidenced by the extensive terracing in places where is absolutely no one.

The remnants of the Chachapoyan culture is certainly distinct from other cultures nearby, but is not particularly unique, with elements of both Amazon and Andean culture. The Chachapoyan mummies are typical Amerind remains, as far as I know. I haven't heard of any DNA studies, although I have inquired with local experts about this.

Gene Savoy claims to have found some interesting stuff at some of the ruins. I got to have a look at some of it, and still don't know what to think. I tend to be very skeptical of claims by the esoterica crowd.


63 posted on 11/26/2006 11:17:51 PM PST by GOPlibertarian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: GOPlibertarian

Excellent report. Thanks for the input.


64 posted on 12/19/2006 5:52:33 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: blam

Looks like we missed a few things in World History class in high school.


65 posted on 12/24/2006 5:22:57 PM PST by RightWhale (RTRA DLQS GSCW)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
"Looks like we missed a few things in World History class in high school."

Yup. The books are being re-written now. DNA analysis, is going to tell us very much...if we're allowed to do them. The Australian Aboriginies will no longer submit to any blood analysis, etc.

66 posted on 12/24/2006 5:27:35 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]


67 posted on 01/11/2007 2:06:58 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
"There are those who believe the Sa'ami "wintered over" in NW Scandinavia during the last glacial maximum."

I recommend you read Stephen Oppenheimer's new book, "Origins Of The British." He has some very interesting DNA data on the Sa'ami and their origins. Very technical but informative book.

68 posted on 01/12/2007 8:50:27 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: blam
Just reading through a piece from the book. Looks like Oppenheimer finally agrees that the ancient journals/annals kept in Galicia are, in fact, correct ~ they describe at least one Gaelic speaking group invading Ireland from Iberia circa 700 BC ~ presumably taking their Basque servant class with them. (Oppenheimer thinks there are three such invasions, but two of them must have been in pre-literate times).

The Gaelic speakers had earlier come from the Danube through the Black Sea, and around the Mediterranean.

One imagines this having been the regular route for a single group of sea-faring Gaelic speakers.

For a variety of reasons the Iberian records, which are far older than those used as a basis for the King Arthur material, have been rejected by English archaeologists and historians.

The part of the ancient stories that relates to King Solomon has received the harshest criticism.

We have a far more recent example of Gaelic speakers flowing into Iberia that is nearly as forgotten. King San Cho Noe I came to Galicia from Cornwall and conquered the remaining Gaelic speaking and Visigothic kingdoms in the area. He reorganized the order of life and initiated the Reconquista which ultimately re-Christianized all of Spain.

Lebenteenzillionpercent of everybody think Sancho is Iberian in origin.

69 posted on 01/13/2007 9:16:58 AM PST by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: blam
Trophy Skull Sheds Light on Ancient Wari Empire
70 posted on 01/24/2007 9:54:16 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Thanks, blam. This is an excellent article, and a very intriguing place.


71 posted on 01/24/2007 10:21:33 PM PST by zot (GWB -- the most slandered man of this decade)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times

Don't-want you-to-miss-this-one ping.


72 posted on 01/24/2007 10:22:57 PM PST by zot (GWB -- the most slandered man of this decade)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: zot

Thanks. It seems that the early Europeans really got around.


73 posted on 01/25/2007 7:29:11 AM PST by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: Interesting Times
"Thanks. It seems that the early Europeans really got around."

They may not be European.

74 posted on 02/01/2007 6:57:25 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: blam

Ah, those Vikings....


75 posted on 02/01/2007 7:09:07 PM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

Sorry I missed this post last year, a very interesting on.

Here is an interesting tidbit. My husband was 1/16 Cree (most likely) Indian, although he was red headed with bright light blue eyes. I am 1/2 German with Tartar ancestry many centuries back and 1/2 British/Celtic with hazel eyes. Our two sons have very dark brown eyes. Mongolian Tartar genes from me that were recessive to my European hazel eyes, but stronger than the completely recessive blue eyes of their father? When my oldest son who also has very dark hair and olive complexion went to have his wisdom teeth extracted, they discovered he had 6 wisdom teeth. They wanted to know if he had Eskimo blood. The Cree were a Canadian tribe, and probably had contact with the Eskimos. I find genetics fascinating.


76 posted on 02/04/2007 11:53:44 PM PST by gleeaikin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah; blam

"The part of the ancient stories related to King Soloman have received the harshest criticism."

Have you seen the most recent story line of Prince Valiant which deals with this topic?


77 posted on 02/05/2007 12:05:16 AM PST by gleeaikin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: gleeaikin
" I find genetics fascinating."

LOL, I expect we all have some suprizes coming.

78 posted on 02/05/2007 7:01:10 AM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: blam

Rare Skeleton, Jewels Found In Bolivia Pyramid (Tiwanaku)

Lots of photos on this thread.

79 posted on 05/03/2007 5:08:19 AM PDT by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Interesting comments on the fair skinned people.

Among the Maya, albinos hold special status as ‘hijos del sol’ (children of the sun).

Perhaps that’s who these people were.


80 posted on 05/03/2007 5:46:31 PM PDT by ViLaLuz (2 Chronicles 7:14)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100101 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson